We are consensus in this family 'community',but the buck stops here,I get the final say.As head of household.And putting family first always over my needs.

Its a biblical concept and works for us.Not too PC but you have to have some sort of final decision making.Figure its worked for lots for a long time,so thats what we do.

About concensus and "flat" (non top down) societies.
A long time ago, I was in the Air Force. One of the people I worked with was a stunning native american woman. Over time, she introduced me to her partner, another quite attractive native american woman. I became sort of their chaparone (for lack of a better word) and would accompany them when ever they went out. It helped to keep the drooling hords at bay for them to be sitting with a 6'2" 250 lb guy. And for an 18 year old kid from a Chicago suburb, they were facinating.

One of the subjects we discussed was how their culture accepted their lesbian relationship. Gradually I understood that there was no standard moral code. No "right" way to be. Everyone traveled a different path and came to a different understanding about how life is to be lived. Also, everyone accepted the others point of view, no matter how it differed from their own. I had a real problem understanding, I mean really understanding how a group could function if there was no standard moral code. But it worked, and eventually I found it to be a very inviting concept. It is much more complex than I can relate in a few paragraphs, it took me the better part of a year to grasp some of the finer points.

For instance, if I were a member of the group, and I brought a chainsaw into the community, the person with the most skill with a chain saw was responsible for its safe use. I would comply with the requirements, that the "expert" would specify. To do otherwise would not be a slam against the expert, but show that I was not worthy and was actually down right stupid. The expert did not want to be responsible, but because of his acknowledged skill, he felt bound to be sure that the novice learned the correct methods.

These two concepts, everyones worldview is valid, and the roll of the expert/novice seem contradictory. They are not. One more example.

In my daughters high school class in Cuenca Ecuador, if one student did not have his/her homework done by the deadlne, the whole class did not turn in their homework, even though there was a penalty for not turning it in.

These three examples hopefully illuminate some of the differences between our culture and some others. In each of these groups, the group cohesion is very important, yet the individuality of each member is upheld.

In the native american group there were no leaders. If someone had to speak for the group, the best negotiator would be chosen, but that person had no special status.

The chain saw expert may appear to be in a leadership position, but really it is just a way to insure the safety of the group and assures that proper skills are passed throughout the group.

My daughters class responded to the close knit society by making sure everyone is included. If a student had difficulty understandind a concept, the remainder of the class would work together to help the person get the concept.

These are of course simple examples of very complex social situations. The point I am trying to make is that not every group needs a leader, not every group member needs to hold the same moral code to survive and competiton is not always the way it has to be.

Concensus is more than just a meeting management technique, it is a lifestyle. It can work to some extent in a "top down" society, but it is much more effective in a "flat" society. One that is interdependent. Where each persons future is tied in with the others. In this type of society, a "leader" is not needed or desired.

I don't think this exists very much in our current USA society. Our moblie lifestyle means that the person next door may not in any meaningful way be dependent on those around them except in cetain situations like disasters. Then they discover that interdependent need. Othewise, our group is not location dependent. We don't know our neighbors, we have no common interests and in fact work to avoid those in our closest proximity.

Perhaps this all has muddied the waters of the OP, but the bathtub person, and as the article noted, we are all, at some point a bathtub person, becomes the responsibility of the group, not an individual. The group works to use the attributes of the bathtub person and shares the "pain" of their shortcomings.

I am 73 now. A lot has happened since I sat enthralled by the world of those two women. But they launched me on a life long study of alternat cultures, at least alternate to my original culture. I see more of the flat society happening in the actions some of todays youth. They seem to see the advantages of a flat society and the disadvantages of the top down society. Guess the pendulum swings.

Life sure is interesting..

Nomad

Nomad, thank you for that post.

For me, voting a person out of the tribe would likely not be an option (unless the person suddenly loses their mind and becomes murderous or something outlandish like that). Anybody in my group during a survival situation will be a family member or a good friend of somebody. It's highly unlikely I'll suddenly form a group with total strangers. I don't even plan for a situation where I'm teaming up long-term with total strangers because there are too many unknown variables. I file that in the "ad-lib" category of survival because I have too many other scenarios to occupy my prep time. The useful thing for me to do is to learn techniques for dealing with the person who's not carrying their weight or who's causing undue friction.

Here's a story. I went out with my family to dinner at a restaurant and to the movies afterward. The movies were near my sister's house, centrally located. She had my niece (12) and nephew (17). We showed up at the movies, and my niece and nephew were dressed like it's mid-July. They are wealthy. Suddenly, it became my responsibility to provide them with clothing so they wouldn't be so cold, even though I was coming from 50 miles away. I gave my niece my jacket. I gave my nephew my relatively thick top shirt. I hope I'm never stuck with them in a survival situation. They could easily jeopardize my survival just by being clueless, and I'm not even talking about how my niece is in a rebellious know-it-all stage. However, at least I know the deal beforehand.

This is a good thread.