There are a couple things which led me to think all-mesh might be a drawback in harsher conditions (neither of which is really hard-data unfortunately).

First, in various forums and reviews I've stumbled across, I have found some personal opinions and anecdotes which put forward the idea. The most credible concern seem to deal with winds which can drive the cold and moisture, be it rain or snow, under the fly and through the mesh. Similar concerns exist around blowing sand or fine dirt, but that's less of a worry for me I think.

The second comes from tent manufactures themselves. If I recall correctly, MSR's now defunct HP version of the Hubba Hubba as well as their new Hoop tent are marketed as better extended season tents due, in part at least, to their fabric inner walls. Another example is the MEC Gemini I linked to above which is offered as an ES (extended season) model with fabric walls in addition to their original model which is mostly mesh.

Again, I don't really know if the all-mesh bodies are that big of a drawback (and I am still considering them), but this is what has led me towards thinking they could be a liability when its not nice out.

Your research sound convincing. After all, you have to deal with Real Weather. I am down here in La la land, eating lotus blossoms.

For a winter or four season then, I prefer an all fabric inner tent. But in general,, the more mesh, the less problem with condensation.

As with everything tent design is a compromise, if you need a full 4 season tent then the main difference is the ability to stand up to high wind speeds approaching 80 mph and will come with 4 and 5 pole geodesic designs. 4 and 5 season tents are considerably heavier. If the 3 season Hubba Hubba is 400 grams lighter than the MEC Gemini ES, this means you can keep warmer by adding a down jacket to your pack during colder spells for the same pack weight. On the other hand the more internal mesh will help with condensation, ventilation and humidity issues during warmer weather, when you are most likely to be using the tent.

I'm currently trying out this tent.



Highlander Proforce single man tent attached to the back of a Lowe Alpine Contour Crossbow 50.

Its no lightweight at 2.8 Kg for a roomy single man design but is nearly bomb proof, takes about 2 min to setup (the inner just needs staked out and the fly thrown over the inner) and allows a camp to be set up very stealthily when used in conjuction with a 9ft x 9ft camo net.

Well, I do have experience with the weather, unfortunately I have little experience camping in it. My requirement for early/late winter comes from helping with my son's Scout's - something I am doing for the first time this year.

Up to now, I've pretty much been a car camper in the summer months.

So, in addition to dealing with more inclement seasons, this is also the first year I'll be doing some backpacking and, while I am likely not going to make all the right gear choices off the bat, I do want to try and start off on the right foot.

Great point about everything being a compromise.

I guess that's really what I'm trying to understand; which features are good, and which are optional so when I look at the various tents that are out there I can better judge the trade-offs between the designs.

Your responses along with the others here are really helping with this - thanks!

As you gain experience you will develop a style and a preference for gear that suits you. Some people swing toward the super ultralight end of the spectrum and trim the margins of their maps, eat food that requires no cooking, etc. Others will carry 60 pound packs for an overnighter.

The Gemini is a good middle of the road compromise. It's not superlight, but it is definitely not ridiculously heavy. You are bound to get substantial use out of it.

If I want to pare my shelter to an acceptable minimum, I go with a bivy bag weighing less than a pound and pair it with a tarp also at a fraction of a pound. Properly situated, such a combination can be surprisingly storm proof and comfortable. But I usually carry something a little heavier and a little easier to pitch.

It looks like you're making good choices here - the MEC tent seems like a good 3 season tent. I own a similar REI Half Dome, an REI QuarterDome, and a TarpTent Double Rainbow, they're all good 3 season tents. The extensive bug screening overhead on the REI models is not really an issue, you put the rainfly on, they're water tight. The Half Dome has the best space for 2 sleepers, the Quarter Dome is lighter but too small for two adults (okay for 1 adult and 1 kid though, if you don't mind squeezing in). I've also slept in the MSR Hubba Hubba on Scout camp outs and its a good tent too, ours was a 3 person model and it is very large. A bit heavier and bulkier than the REI Half Dome. I like the simplicity of the Tarptents most, they're lightweight and plenty water tight. I use my Double Rainbow as my solo tent, but I could fit a couple sleepers in easily enough.

A word of caution on extending the tarptent or any 3 season tent into shoulder winter seasons, you can get snow infiltration in a tarptent along the bottom, because there is bug screening where on other tents there might be a solid nylon panel, I've been out in October-November and snowed on and you do get some snow in your tent that way. They're not really designed for winter conditions, and though they'll work in a pinch, you shouldn't trust them to perform for you in snow situations. But I've been warm and dry in all of these tents you and other posters have mentioned.

If I had to choose a tent to be marooned in for a couple days of absolute downpouring rain - probably go for the Double Rainbow camping solo, or the Half Dome if camping with a friend. There'd be room for both of you and a deck of cards anyway.

Correct. Drifting snow will get in pretty much everywhere. A good 4-season tent will do a much better job of keeping that snow out. Rain is much less of a problem if the tent is well designed, i.e. an areodynamic shape where the wind won't just lift the fly up, leaving the inner tent exposed to the hammering rain. Or with vent openings that acts as funnels for rain and snow as soon as there is a little wind.

A very important consideration is also: How hard is it to pitch that tent in bad weather and high winds? The difference is HUGE among the tents at the markets, and this is something you really must pay attention to when reading those reviews.

For the reasons stated above, I am extremely sceptical for any construction where the load bearing construction is the inner tent, and where the fly is just something that is clipped onto the inner tent+poles. I assume there would be ways to design such constructions to be weather robust, and probably ways of pitching them in bad weather (without soaking the inner tent before the fly is in place). Untill I've actually tried it and being proved wrong my gut feeling is that this really isn't a good way to make weather robust tents. A robust load bearing "outer tent" where the inner tent is something that dangles inside it is what I prefer.

Another important consideration is ventilation. You will have condensation and rime frost in ANY tent, but much less of it if the ventilation is well designed. This requires a system of vents so you can have air flow through the tent. Even more so if you run a stove for cooking or heat. And you want a reliable and simple way of shutting those vents in bad weather. Preferably from the inside.

Do you plan for running a stove inside your tent? Then the height and volume of the vestibule is important. Many people think it is absolutely crazy to run a stove inside a tent, but the benefits - particular in bad weather - outweights the risks, IMO.

My winter camping experience - including some not really nice weather episodes - has mainly been in big tents with a wood stove. So, like you, I have very little hard earned experience on the subject. But (like you) I've assembled some knowledge through second hand experience of friends, reviews and forums.

Nearly all of my winter camping experience has been in tents of this construction, with the inner tent carrying the load, particularly the North Face VE-25, a venerable classic. Strictly speaking, it wasn't winter, but July on Denali at 14,000+ feet exposed us to -80 degree F wind chill and plenty of near hurricane force winds. I have also used, many years ago, an even more venerable classic, the REI McKinley. If the tent is designed, constructed, and used properly for winter conditions, they work fine.

I would imagine that is equally true of your preferred design, which also usually gives you the option of packing just the fly for a lighter weight alternative.

What is really critical is site selection and site "improvement". On Denali, you either occupied a recently vacated tent site with a snow block wind wall, or you built one, sometimes before you erected the tent. During a blizzard (the aforementioned -80 wind chill, which also featured winds forecast at 80MPH) you tend to your tent regularly. We carefully dressed up a tent mate every two hours and sent the Chosen One out to clear driven snow off the tent - great fun!

I used winter tents on a project on the Channel Islands, primarily because we were subject to high winds - evening events of 50 to 60 MPH, called "Sundowners." We could pitch our tents in any spot we liked when in camp. One person chose a location with a stunning view, but found out one evening that it was an excessively windy spot. The wind literally blew her tent apart. Meanwhile, I blissfully slept through the episode, in a tent pitched about 300 feet away in a very scenic, but brush protected, location.

It's location, location, location.

I second that Art, especially if you're camping with kids. Not sure what age your son is, but "Scout" usually doesn't equal "wise" until they're much older. They're not disciplined enough to be economical with space. They take up more space when getting dressed and sleeping, and their stuff very often appears to be managed by a tornado.