I've been toying with this idea for a while. I have read lots of information on zeltbahn tent quarters, poncho's and liners, lightweight quilts etc and feel that I would like to make something that combines lots of these ideas to make a lightweight and versatille bedroll. I'm thinking of a lightweight ripstop nylon outer that connects with press studs to a fleece inner. It would possibly have a zip or velcroed hole in the center of both which your head could be stuck through to use as a poncho. Grommets would be attached around the outside so that this could be rigged in a variety of ways. It could be a tarp with seperate quilt, a poncho, a waterproof quilt, a warm bivy bag or either could be used on their own. The materials would be purchased from here.

I am completely open minded to any ideas. I have not yet finalised any part of it and would welcome any contribution.
Thanks

take a look at this site http://www.woodsdrummer.com/trailtube.html
that one looks good to me, but the assrag.... bah

Sounds like you're describing a G.I. poncho and liner with an added zipper kit. I've got one and if I'm anticipating cooler weather, I include a fleece bag liner. While I can't give it an official temp. rating, it's comfy down to pretty d*#%@d chilly. The whole roll can be put together through Brigade Quartermaster, but if you've got a surplus shop close by, the poncho & liner will be cheaper there, and my fleece liner came from Walgreens. I don't know of another source for the zipper kit.
Have a great day!
Troy

That isn't possible for me as I live in England. The poncho costs about £20 and the liner a further £30 and the fleece liner £30 again. This adds up to £80 ($136)! Not including the zips. This, as you can see is not really practical <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

OK, this is scary. I, too, have been recently playing round trying to come up with an alternative to the bulbous sleeping bag.

I have a US poncho and poncho liner (I have the German flectarn versions, too), which work OK in temps between 40 and 65 degrees F. Advantages are that the liner is compressible (fits in a butt back with room to spare), and dries easily when wet. Disadvantages are that it is too hot above about 65F, and not warm enough under about 40F-45F. Adding the poncho gives you a few degrees more comfort, but only a few. And, in warmer weather, adding the poncho for rain protection makes the combo a sauna. There are Thinsulate poncho liners on the market ( Brigade Quartermasters ), but they are pricey, and some reviewers claim they are not all that much warmer.

I still like the flexibility of the poncho-as-bivy-sack approach, so I started experimenting - not with eliminating the poncho/poncho liner, but trying to enhance it. I've tried two options recently: First - adding a thin wool blanket in between the poncho liner and the poncho, and second - adding another poncho liner. Using Cliff's "Am-I-Still-Warm-with-just-a-T-Shirt-after-an-Hour?" Test (utterly un-scientific) and several recent 27 degree nights (yes, we have those down here...), here are my findings:

Poncho/wool blanket/poncho liner combo: Very toasty. Could have used it all night and, I suspect, at lower temps, too. I selected wool since it will keep a lot of it's insulating ability even when wet. My modifications to the wool blanket are to add small grommets to match the grommets on the poncho, enabling you to run the strings of the poncho liner through the blanket grommets before tying the liner to the poncho. Keeps the blanket (somewhat) in place. Down sides: Wool blanket/poncho liner are not a compact item when packed. About 1.25 times the capacity of a US butt pack. And heavy, too. About 5lbs., total.

Two poncho liner combo: Toasty, but not as much as the wool blanket combo. Had some cold spots where elbows, knees and shoulders pressed the liners too thin. Again, I could have used it all night. Down sides: Bulky as all get out, but highly compressible. Using the Grunt "Stuff-and-Smash" method, you can - just - get two poncho liners into a US butt pack. I'd be worried about loss of loft/insulating ability being so compressed over time. The combo is lighter than the wool blanket one, though.

Other issues: Both options rely on the poncho snaps for closure. Great, if you have to jump out of your rack quick when the Hottentots begin shelling your position; not so great for keeping in the warmth. Leaves gaps, you see. Would put a zipper on the poncho liner (as per Ranger Rick's mods). Closure of the poncho ends, where there are no snaps: I gather up the ends, garbage bag style, and them tie them off with a bit of para-chord. Works well so far (make sure to leave a bit of the side seam open for venting), though it does make the whole affair look like a large, woodland camo joint (think 70's lingo, folks). Thought of calling it the "Cheech and Chong Sleep System"... <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Any thoughts would be most welcome.

.....CLIFF

Thanks. Great reply.
The website that I mentioned, point north, sells thinsulate at £5.90 per metre. I could incorperate that in some way. I'm not sure what thinsulate is. I used to think it was some sort of fleece or wool because I saw it writen on gloves and watch caps, but it seems to be some sort of wadding material. Can anyone enlighten me? ( I don't want the thread hijacked <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />)

I could make a sort of quilt out of pertex and thinsulate for £20, much cheaper than a poncho liner. I'm not sure my sewing skills are up to that though.

On saturday I bought a pretty large nylon stuffsack which weighs nothing for £2. It has a handle across the bottom and a long drawstring. By tying the drawstring to the handle, it can be carried as a hudson bay pack. This would work perfectly for carrying my bedroll.

Try doing this for a tent. Of course if you use the surplus poncho, poncho-liner for bed-roll, fiber-glass tent poles and a plastic trash-bag or drop-cloth for the ground-cloth you will be much bulkier, colder, and heavier but much cheaper. But, If you spend the $40 for the poncho, the $110 for the sleeping bag, the ~$140 for the carbon fiber custom tent poles, and the few bucks for the tyvek ground-cloth and 4 - 6 .5oz tent pegs and associated paracord tie-outs, you can get your total wieght under 5 pounds and it will still all lfit into the Surplus butt pack. OTOH, if youj pack it like these ready-kits you could have the roll over the outside of the butt-pack and some clothes and rations inside and be GTG at a grab.

I did a lot of cold-weather experiments for hammocking, and only got good results when I started using a pad in conjunction with fabric and fiber insulation.

Don't overlook the insulating power of the cheap, closed-cell, foam pad. All the poncho liner insulation compresses beneath you. You'd need a ton of it to keep your bottom side warm. But the pad, while compressing a little, still keeps you warm.

You could use it as an outer, waterproof layer for your bedroll.

Bear

Sgt Rocks Hiking HQ had a hell of a good idea that was light and inexpensive. For details check his site regarding the hammock, foam, and sun reflector for a car windshield.

Bountyhunter

Have you looked at [url=http://www.duluthpack.com]In their camping section look for bed rools.I just learned of them but they have been around since 1882.Companies that are still around that long must be reputable.They even sell Gransfors axes..
BOATMAN

what about this...

http://www.geocities.com/ecotat/ecotatLWSBMP.htm

It looks promising.

Thanks for the suggestions guys, but most of them involve US kit which is expensive or imposible to get over here. You've given me loads of ideas though <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

I like the idea: does any one know of a supplier in the US? <img src="images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Pete.. there is a UK based sleeping bag manufacturer which makes high quality bags which weigh half a kilo and crush down to the size of a baseball. ..
To get the idea, look at this Australian equivalent [ scroll down to the Palm 1 and Palm 3 bags ] to get an idea of how small you can pack the high technology bags.

http://www.extremeequipment.com.au/sleeping1.html

The UK equivalent is on issue to the British Army. I guess you need to consider expected climatic conditions and whether you are a 'hot' or 'cold' sleeper.
My experience is that you can easily add more thermal wear and take a 'lighter' bag, if size and weight is a problem...
Hope this is helpful.. I cannot remember the UK manufacturer's name, but they have advertised in outdoors magazines here in Australia, so should be easily found in UK outlets...
PeterR

I think you must be taking about the snugpak softie 3. I have been searching for a new sleeping bag for a while and have read loads of reviews. Snugpak often gets bad reviews and most people universally say that the temperature rating is way out. Anyway, today I purchased a new sleeping bag. mountain equipment sleepwalker 1. Goes down to -5 degrees c.
Thanks for the reply anyway. However that is not what i'm looking for. This thread is about the persuit of a versatille bedroll, not a sleeping bag.
Cheers

All sites below sell in the UK


dropzone poncho-liner

SOF poncho-liner

quilts and bag liners

silvermans poncho-liner and basha

poncho-liner

Thanks for the links. I was aware that UK companies sold the liner (didn't know that many did <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />) but most of them are around £30. I have looked at and considered the travelproof quilt and poncho, indeed I have ordered from them before (well i've ordered one of their products from a different site). it was the jungle basha. My sister has the quilt and is currently living in india and using it all the time.
Thanks again. Sorry this is post is such a mess.

I have been working on this and have come up with something. OK, it's not what I originally planned, but it's something to start off with that I can add to. What I have come up with is:
A fleece sleeping bag liner that I bought for £16 locally.
A wool blanket that folds up pretty small and is versatille.
A reflective blanket. I think its called a sportsman's blanket in the US. The only other one I've seen in the UK was in the local shop as I got the fleece liner and cost £20. I didn't buy that one, but I saw this one today for £5 so I snaped it up. It is a ripstop aluminised sheet on one side and blue tarp on the other. It has a strong edge around the outside and big grommets at the corners. This could be used as a tarp, groundsheet or as a sort of bivi bag. Maybe in the future I'll cut a hole in the middle to use it like a poncho as originally stated.
In the bedroll there is also a piece of closed cell sleeping pad about 1/2 normal length to go under my torso. All this fits into a OD nylon stuffsack which, useing the drawcord and an additional piece of cord, is tied into a hudson bay pack so it can be strung across my shoulders like a traditional bedroll.
I haven't yet used this outdoors. When I do, i'll give feedback

I still welcome anymore ideas.

Chris,
I just found this from you in a relitively old post:
"I like the Aussie "Swagman" carry; a bedroll ( sleeping bag) slung under one shoulder, waterbag opposite with a light backpack, and my pockets full of essentials."
This is the sort of set up I've been dreaming of. What do think of my kit? Next I need to get a US 2 quart water bottle for over-the-shoulder carry.
Any suggestions?