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#219625 - 03/18/11 03:13 AM Sleep is More Important than Food
Art_in_FL Offline
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Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
People, particularly in survival situations, tend to shortchange their need for sleep. You need all the mental power and alertness you can muster. Even if you aren't wiling to buy that you need to value sleep more than food I think we need to, at the very least, get sleep on the same list as water, food and shelter.

http://blogs.hbr.org/schwartz/2011/03/sleep-is-more-important-than-f.html

IMHO, no disaster or emergency plan is complete without a sleep/awake plan. Moving it sleep up the list also can effect what gear you include. In my experience a $4 sleep mask and $1 earplugs can make a getting some sleep much easier.

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#219632 - 03/18/11 05:30 AM Re: Sleep is More Important than Food [Re: Art_in_FL]
CANOEDOGS Offline
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Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1853
Loc: MINNESOTA
i found when i was in the Army-67-69- that if i had warm food and decent sleep i could put up with just about anything else.even if the food was C Rats and the sleep was in a bunker.when i put a ditch kit together for canoe trips i made sure i had something to cook in and compressed soup tabs.for the sleep part a good foil type bag and a bug net were top of the list.

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#219638 - 03/18/11 10:19 AM Re: Sleep is More Important than Food [Re: CANOEDOGS]
hikermor Offline
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Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Easily the most important single piece of outdoor gear is a sleeping bag (or perhaps "sleep system" as some would put it) adequate for conditions.
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#219646 - 03/18/11 12:35 PM Re: Sleep is More Important than Food [Re: Art_in_FL]
bacpacjac Offline
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Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3601
Loc: Ontario, Canada
i totally agree. shelter is usually at the top of my priority list. food is always after that. after protecting from the elements, sleep is the second aim of shelter in my mind. in fact, i break shelter into three categories: "something to sleep under, something to sleep on and something to sleep in".
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#219648 - 03/18/11 12:55 PM Re: Sleep is More Important than Food [Re: Art_in_FL]
njs Offline
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Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 41
Loc: Colorado
bacpacjac,

I'm going to steal your phrase "something to sleep under, something to sleep on and something to sleep in" and use it since I assume it isn't copy-written.

njs

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#219652 - 03/18/11 01:20 PM Re: Sleep is More Important than Food [Re: njs]
bacpacjac Offline
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Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3601
Loc: Ontario, Canada
credit goes to ray mears, njs. i think it's from the intro to one of his books. so simple!
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#219659 - 03/18/11 02:19 PM Re: Sleep is More Important than Food [Re: Art_in_FL]
Glock-A-Roo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
Concur wholeheartedly; good post Art. This concept is completely in line with Mors Kochanski's credo that beyond maintaining 98.6 degF, the two most important needs when in the bush are 1) staying hydrated and 2) getting decent sleep. If you can't achieve these two goals it makes executing further strategies much, much harder.

Mors goes to a lot more trouble to obtain sleep than he does to procure food.

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#219660 - 03/18/11 02:20 PM Re: Sleep is More Important than Food [Re: Art_in_FL]
comms Offline
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Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
I think that is pretty smart. If given the two, lack of sleep, lack of food, I personally function better on lack of food. I can go a night or two with little sleep but it catches up to me fast with mental mistakes.

I've done some 24-36 hour races/runs and even though I am eating, its not enough calories so technically I am energy input deprived. But if I can't get even a little sleep, think I am worse off.
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#219681 - 03/18/11 04:27 PM Re: Sleep is More Important than Food [Re: Art_in_FL]
Mark_F Offline
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Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 714
Loc: Kentucky
A good night's sleep makes mundane, everyday life easier to manage and tasks easier to accomplish ... it stands to reason that resting well while in any emergency/survival situation will improve your chances of a successful outcome. Thanks for the reminder Art.
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#219770 - 03/19/11 02:02 PM Re: Sleep is More Important than Food [Re: Mark_F]
Ann Offline
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Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 42
Loc: Western Washington
Hmm. If sleep is more important than food, then perhaps a means of pain relief and some sort of relaxant/sleep aid might be considered essential?

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#219772 - 03/19/11 02:24 PM Re: Sleep is More Important than Food [Re: Art_in_FL]
CANOEDOGS Offline
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Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1853
Loc: MINNESOTA
Ann..yes it is.i keep the pain meds my Dr gives me for arthritis in any kit i carry. with that in mind there is a fine line however in pain control and staying alert/aware/a head on you shoulders/to react.it would be a real bummer to the miss the chopper that buzzed my survival camp because i was buzzed.

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#219774 - 03/19/11 02:35 PM Re: Sleep is More Important than Food [Re: Ann]
Glock-A-Roo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
Originally Posted By: Ann
Hmm. If sleep is more important than food, then perhaps a means of pain relief and some sort of relaxant/sleep aid might be considered essential?


I know guys who take a Tylenol PM every evening before bed when on the trail.

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#219777 - 03/19/11 03:24 PM Re: Sleep is More Important than Food [Re: Art_in_FL]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3601
Loc: Ontario, Canada
the older i get, the more sleep, pain managment and hydration factor into my planning. as a mom and scout leader, they have to be priorities, and arthritis and migrains are realities for me so i'm better off to prepare for them.
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#219779 - 03/19/11 03:36 PM Re: Sleep is More Important than Food [Re: Glock-A-Roo]
hikermor Offline
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Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Originally Posted By: Glock-A-Roo
Originally Posted By: Ann
Hmm. If sleep is more important than food, then perhaps a means of pain relief and some sort of relaxant/sleep aid might be considered essential?


I know guys who take a Tylenol PM every evening before bed when on the trail.


I would rather not take any more drugs than necessary. Generally, at the end of a long day on the trail, I can nod off with no trouble. Pain due to injury is another matter, but my experience is that in that situation you want something a bit stronger than OTC stuff.
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#219781 - 03/19/11 03:51 PM Re: Sleep is More Important than Food [Re: hikermor]
Ann Offline
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Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 42
Loc: Western Washington
Originally Posted By: hikermor
I would rather not take any more drugs than necessary. Generally, at the end of a long day on the trail, I can nod off with no trouble. Pain due to injury is another matter, but my experience is that in that situation you want something a bit stronger than OTC stuff.


Right, I was referring to having the medications if needed. In my experience any emergency situation that gets your adrenaline going generally makes sleep harder to come by, especially with anxiety thrown into the mix. And when it comes to pain, my thinking is that even minor injuries may interfere with sleep quality and quantity, which could be improved with some measure of relief.

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#219803 - 03/19/11 07:15 PM Re: Sleep is More Important than Food [Re: Art_in_FL]
Art_in_FL Offline
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Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
In my experience the most common 'sleeping pills', and one that is quite effective, is available OTC as an antihistamine: Benadryl/Diphenhydramine. It typically comes in 25mg tablets or capsules and 25 to 50mg will lay most adults out quite handily. It is one of the most commonly used drugs in many hospitals where it is often the drug of choice for patients who need a little something to sleep in the hospital environment.

Diphenhydramine is one of those 'must-haves' in my medical kits. As an antihistamine it often works where more modern antihistamines don't. It works reliably as a sleep aid, controls motion sickness, is an emergency stop-gap for asthma or severe allergic reaction, and even has a role as topical analgesic. It is also cheap with a 100 count bottle of generic going for all of $4.

I go for the capsules because the option of opening them up and using the powder can speed absorption and makes swallowing easier. The powder can be added to food or drink. Diphenhydramine is quite bitter so mix in just enough to ease swallowing. I've been told, don't know for sure and I'll get professional advice before I try it, you can snort the powder or mix with liquid and take as an enema. Which might be useful if the patient can't hold food or drink down.

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#219810 - 03/19/11 08:57 PM Re: Sleep is More Important than Food [Re: Art_in_FL]
comms Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
My 'sleeping pill' is a long day of hiking, a belly of warm food, lots of stars, and few pulls off the brandy bottle. Out pretty quick.
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#219817 - 03/20/11 01:39 AM Re: Sleep is More Important than Food [Re: Art_in_FL]
Susan Offline
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Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
Benedryl is an OTC antihistamine that can also be used as a sleep aid.

But if you can carry some food (even a few granola bars), it can reduce the WORRY about food, and the less worry, probably the more sleep will be 'allowed'.

Sue

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#219821 - 03/20/11 05:28 AM Re: Sleep is More Important than Food [Re: comms]
Ann Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 42
Loc: Western Washington
Originally Posted By: comms
My 'sleeping pill' is a long day of hiking, a belly of warm food, lots of stars, and few pulls off the brandy bottle. Out pretty quick.


And if one or more of those factors were not available to you? This is, after all, a "survival and emergency" topic.

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#219824 - 03/20/11 12:44 PM Re: Sleep is More Important than Food [Re: Ann]
hikermor Offline
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Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
My experience is that sooner or later you will fall asleep regardless. There are reliable accounts of Civil War soldiers who slept while continuing to march.

Sleep is critical to proper function; get as much as you need whenever possible. You will do much better.
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#219844 - 03/20/11 06:49 PM Re: Sleep is More Important than Food [Re: Art_in_FL]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
When hiking and camping I never seem to have any problem sleeping. The fresh air, steady exertion of carrying a pack and covering ground, stars above, and a stress-free environment away from people and work see me out like a light and up with the sun.

A wilderness survival situation may share enough of that so sleeping may not be an issue. The situation after a major disaster where hundreds, maybe thousands, are homeless, injured and in desperate need of the basics shares few of the things that makes sleep easy.

Odds are you have lost most of what you had: friends, family, home, even all those carefully socked away survival supplies may be gone. The future may be doubtful because the place you worked, the people you worked for and with may be gone. What worries you the most is simply not knowing. Not knowing who made it, who didn't. Not knowing how you will cover the basics tomorrow. Not knowing how you will make a living.

And then there are the other people. People who have been ripped out of comfortable lives, some of who are injured, all sharing the same doubts and fears. Uncertain, frightened, with no clear answers.

If you are around people they will be testy, angry, nervous, in deep denial, catatonic, or suicidal. Many doing each by turns. The injured will cry out and moan, kids will whine and scream and cry, adults will bicker over nothing. The best and worse all come out. Near crowds there will be constant noise, commotion, smells. Sleeping is going to be an issue.

Earplugs, a sleep mask, a smear of Vapo-rub under the nose help a lot. Benedryl has its uses. Some people like a pink-noise recording on a pod. Never had one of those. I've used my sleep kit on a buses and in airports. Being a little isolated by these I usually alert a few people to bump me awake if anything happens.

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#219846 - 03/20/11 07:02 PM Re: Sleep is More Important than Food [Re: Art_in_FL]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3601
Loc: Ontario, Canada
i used to sleep well. and then i became a parent. and then a park black bear visit us a couple of times on a trip to a provincial park last year. i was on heightened alert all week, despite a bear - assumed to be "the" bear - being caught and taken away early in the week. it taught me an important lesson: i'm not going to sleep soundly if i feel my family is at risk, even with a full tummy.
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#219870 - 03/20/11 10:40 PM Re: Sleep is More Important than Food [Re: bacpacjac]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
I know I caused my parents a lot of sleepless nights. However, I can tell you that karma is real.....
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#219876 - 03/20/11 11:12 PM Re: Sleep is More Important than Food [Re: Art_in_FL]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2997
Not being able to sleep runs in my family. My grandfather was a full time farmer, worked from dusk until dawn but still couldn't sleep at night. Grandmother was the same way, she got some new doctor that told her to to take a drink (of something alcohol) before bed, it was the closest she ever came to swearing.

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#219878 - 03/20/11 11:17 PM Re: Sleep is More Important than Food [Re: Ann]
comms Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
Originally Posted By: Ann
Originally Posted By: comms
My 'sleeping pill' is a long day of hiking, a belly of warm food, lots of stars, and few pulls off the brandy bottle. Out pretty quick.


And if one or more of those factors were not available to you? This is, after all, a "survival and emergency" topic.


LOL. thanks Ann, for some reason I thought the thread had jumped from survival to mundane sleep patterns. I refer you to my original posted response in this thread,

"I think that is pretty smart. If given the two, lack of sleep, lack of food, I personally function better on lack of food. I can go a night or two with little sleep but it catches up to me fast with mental mistakes.

I've done some 24-36 hour races/runs and even though I am eating, its not enough calories so technically I am energy input deprived. But if I can't get even a little sleep, think I am worse off
."
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