So you have decided you must bug out through a devastated city. Let's assume you and those who are to go with you have well-thought-out bug-out-bags full of gear and supplies, and you have a well-thought-out foot / bicycle / motorcycle route with alternates to move through the city. You know you will probably have to spend at least one overnight in the city. Now it is time to move.

1. Other than for legal authorities, who do you stop for?

2. What is your response to those who want what you have?

3. What protocol do you follow with those who want to join you?

4. Where do you draw the line between looting and foraging for a resource you decide you need?

1.Stop for No one 2.They'll have to Earn it!(see rule #1)3.Newbies take Point,otherwise see Rule #1! 4.My BOB is so thought out,that descision Never comes to bear!

1. Other than for legal authorities, who do you stop for?

Nobody. In some circumstances, I might avoid legal authorities as well. Legal authorities will funnel people towards mass evacuation routes or shelters, both of which will be quickly overrun and useless. For at least the initial 72 hours, I would prefer to be self-sufficient and avoid the hysteria, pandemonium and potential dangers of being a "have" in a sea of "have nots."

2. What is your response to those who want what you have?

Your choice: 9mm or 12-gauge.

3. What protocol do you follow with those who want to join you?

All others are considered a liability until proven otherwise. If you appear rational and non-threatening, and can convince me you are sufficiently self-reliant, (both in terms of physical capabilities and supplies), there are benefits to larger groups (within reason) and you are welcome to join. But there will still be one member of my "tribe" on watch at all times to avoid problems.

4. Where do you draw the line between looting and foraging for a resource you decide you need?

For the most part, foraging is gathering consumables while looting is taking property. Food, beverages, clothing, fuel, medicine and other supplies would fall under foraging. Cash, coins, jewelry, electronics, etc fall under looting. Things that blur the line are transportation and tools.

1. Other than for legal authorities, who do you stop for?
No one, I would likely divert around others.

2. What is your response to those who want what you have?
That will have to do with the range to contact. Starting with 7.62 NATO, moving thru 12GA, and on to .45ACP. In the end through, it will likely be an end. I will not be in the mood to share.

3. What protocol do you follow with those who want to join you?
Everyone needs a trail canary....

4. Where do you draw the line between looting and foraging for a resource you decide you need?

If I need it to survive, and someone else isn't using it, I will make use of it. If I can later replace the value to the owner, I will.

1. Unless they are better armed than me, I stop for no one. I will make diversions to avoid confrontations.

2. You want what I have, cool. Have some bullets first. I subscribe to the shoot the biggest mofo/obvious leader first, the others will quickly lose interest.

3. You can follow me, but I don't share stuff. I will tell you what to pick up as we pass, but I am not stopping unless I need some too. Keep up or get left behind.

4. Looting is TVs, foraging is food. Doubt I will be taking many TVs along with me. Take nothing from anyone else who is using it or may use it - but if the property is not being used and appears abandoned, and I can use it, fair game.

I posted about 11 replies to various posts in this thread, all of which would have forced me into the untenable situation of having to ban myself for profanity, vulgarity, bad manners and excessive bile.

Now that I've cooled off a bit, I'll summarize in more neutral tones some of my perspective on the comments that this thread has generated:

1. If you don't stop for legal authorities in a life-threatening emergency, you are an idiot.

2. If you live in a fantasy "mad max" world and you see everything as a threat, you're not going to be very useful to anyone in a real emergency.

3. The correct protocol to follow for those who want to join you as you escape was developed by one Deamont Love during hurricane Katrina. See also some guy named Luke who has some perspective on the matter.

If you come expecting a battle, you'll get one. There's no looting in Japan. There's no riots. Even in Haiti, there was some unrest, but cooler heads prevailed.

For those who answered 9mm or 12ga to Question 2, what would you do when you are outnumbered and outgunned in a coordinated attack? I suppose in your answers you conceive of the enemy as the average citizen who turns predatory in times of crisis because he is a jerk. But what if your enemy is today's criminal youth, who often operates in groups, with tactics and firearms?

For example, you are walking along in a packed crowd, shoulder to shoulder, and suddenly you feel one or two guns pressed up against you. That's when they issue the request for money. Alternatively, you are sitting down, resting. Three seemingly friendly looking people join you, and that's when they flash their weapons. They politely explain that they have been following you for a while, and they know what you have, even down to a pretty good estimate of the amount of cash in your wallet. Hand it over, please. I have seen this sort of stuff happen in real life, or I know people whom it happened to.

To me, the best weapon is situational awareness and hiding your stuff -- that includes firearms. If you are going to carry a long gun, be ready for the possibility that someone would shoot you first from a hiding spot just to get your gun. That happens in peace time, so why not in times of catastrophe?


Da Bing

This thread was obviously proposed to allow us all to vent our hypermacho mall ninja, Mad Max bullet spewing, inner Walter Mitty personae.

This is great stuff for an off day on the internet, but as MF points out, it doesn't seem to happen in real life disasters. Could it be that people band together, cooperate, and assist one another?

And then to get real, share wisdom, and help each other think it through.