OK, so this week's stove is a bit of a "sleeper" in the sense that it's not a stove that you would expect a lot from -- unless you knew better. But you'll have to read on to find out what's so interesting about this week's stove, the MSR Rapidfire.



HJ

Good Stuff,Jim,Thanx Alot!The Loss of That pin would be a Major Bummer,Is There an Alternative/Haste fix in the Field,that would suffice for a Boiled liter of water,Without danger?

In the field, no. But you can buy on eBay an adapter of the type that will connect one of the "long" cans of 100% butane favored by the restaurant industry. You can then run your stove very cheaply (about 1/6th the price of 8oz backpacking-specific canisters and 1/10th the price of 4 oz backpacking-specific canisters), BUT the gas will be a fair weather fuel only, which will generally work well above 40F/4C.

The black Kovea adaptors are pretty good. I've seen other adapters with a stainless steel plate with two little legs and a brass fitting that are not good at all.

HJ

Nice. Thnaks again!

You're welcome as always.

HJ

Jim,

Thanks again for the GREAT information - or - wait -- is it fie upon you for scratching an itch? Two months ago I would have said I had 2 stoves (I may have) even though I had 5 or 6 (one of them was a WWII Coleman that I kept for sentimental reasons and may fire up again) mostly the rest were solid fuel stoves (a Ti wing and several types of Esbit) that I had not used in years. Now I have those and have added to the collection (a Coleman Xpert and a replacement (old) 123. Even the Esbit's have been out for inspection and some for trials.

Fie on you!! or THANKS!! I'm not sure which

The best,

Jerry

p.s. Any thoughts about finding PowerMax fuel? None of our local suppliers have any and every online I have tried is out of stock. jdf

Jerry,

Re Powermax fuel, I've been getting mine at Sports Authority. I've also seen it at REI, Big Five, Sport Chalet, and I think Bass Pro. Someone told me that Sears carries Powermax fuel as well, but I don't have any first hand experience with Sears.

If you get stuck, send me a PM. I'm happy to send you out some via USPS. It's OK to send via US Mail as long as it's well packaged and marked "ORM-D, Surface Only, Consumer Goods".

Be careful if you fire up the old Coleman. If the rubber "pip" in the NRV goes bad, pressurized fuel can come shooting out of the pump. Pressurized fuel + flame = potential trip to hospital (or worse). What is it? An M1942? I've actually avoided them because of the danger, but a friend of mine showed me his. Pretty cool little stoves.

Various types of Esbit? Do tell. Photos?

HJ

Thanks. I've been thinking about getting a remote gas stove, maybe primus express spider (mostly due to local availability) for the times when my pocket rocket don't work well, and I don't want to drag the omnifuel along. On the other hand, I really don't need another hole in my wallet...

On my wish list as well.

I do have a trangia buthane/propane burner that fits into the trangia stove. I'm very happy with it, but I am looking for a lighter and more compact alternative. I have a very small pot that is the perfect size for 450 gram gas canisters, I just need an optimus express spider to go along with it....

The Omnifuel does of course make a good remote canister set up.


Although the Omnifuel does not have a pre-heat loop per se, I'll let you in on a little secret: any stove capable of burning liquid fuel is capable of operating in liquid feed mode (provided that you can hook it up to a canister). If a stove has the ability to vaporize a heavy fuel like kerosene, it's for darn sure it can vaporize liquefied gas.

The Omnifuel is truly a cool stove. In weather above 40F/4C, just run it as a regular remote canister stove. In weather from 0F/-18C to 40F/4C, run it in inverted canister (liquid feed) mode. In weather below 0F/-18C, run it on liquid fuel. Of course, any mode that handles colder weather can be employed in warmer weather; it's just that the warmer weather modes are more convenient.

That's one of the reasons I reviewed the Rapidfire. It's a) remote and b) has a pre-heat loop (which allows for liquid feed mode), but it's affordable. I picked one up for less than $30.00 recently.

HJ

If your pot fits the big 450g (16 ounce) canisters and you consider that a "very small" pot, I'd hate to see what a big pot looks like.

HJ

Sorry... I mean the 225g canister size.

I see the Primus Express Spider on Amazon for around $50 which sounds like a pretty good price.

The only downside I see to the spider, and it's a pretty minor one, is that the control knob is very pointy which makes the canister harder to invert than something like a Rapidfire or Windpro which will invert with no additional equipment.


Not a big deal. I think a little plastic tub with a slot cut in it for the fuel hose would do nicely for inverted use.

HJ

But express spider is less than half the weight, and we all need that new gadget fix once in a while.

Okay it's mostly the second part.

And the Spider is a lot more compact. Looks like a nice stove, and it will support liquid feed mode. From what I've read, it has good carbon monoxide numbers -- after it warms up. Let us know how it goes after you get it.

The only advantage a Rapidfire would have over a Spider is price. A Spider is going to run you around $50 or more whereas I can get a Rapidfire for under $30. If it's light and compact you want, though, I wouldn't recommend the Rapidfire. Affordable? Yes. Light and compact? No.

HJ

HJ,

I got my first Esbit from a Brit officer while I was in the service - seemed more rugged and better made than the commercial ones. The ones I have (or think I have now) are the regular size, the pocket size and a "flat" one that I used to keep in a flight survival kit. Used the regular one (it seemed to be the best of the bunch) for some work in Wyoming during the dry season where open fires were a no - no. It was never a favorite because of the fuel, Esbit tabs or GI tabs. I went back to my 123 and put them away. I bought the Ti Wing from WetFire in hopes the fuel was better (and I love little light things that work). Tried it a couple of times at home and went back to my Pocket Rocket.

I guess that nothing is as good as some pine squaw wood for boiling the noon kettle, but there are lots of times and places it is not acceptable or practical. I keep thinking of trying a Vargo Hexagon -it might be a cleaner way to go.

Respectfully,

Jerry

The reviews haven't been kind to most of the Vargo alcohol stoves. I have no idea how a Vargo wood stove would compare. Wood fires are pretty restricted here in S. California because of fire danger.

If wood fires were more of an option, I would be sorely tempted to purchase a Backcountry Boiler which is essentially a Kelly Kettle type device that has been made compact and light enough to be practical for a hiker, hunter, or backpacker.

Wetfire, hasn't fared well in reviews as a stove fuel. Hexamine, such as Esbit, seems to be a much better fuel than the wetfire tinder. Esbit isn't my favorite fuel, but it can be made to work. The typical folding Esbit stove sold in most outdoors isn't very good in my opinion. The Ti-Wing is better, but you really need a windscreen. In my review on my blog of the Ti-Wing, I didn't really go into windscreens, a deficiency I shall have to rectify.

I'm not sure what you mean by regular size vs. pocket size. Do you have any photos you can post?

For me, my Svea 123 still rules the day for a quick brew up or hot soup under normal conditions. In some ways, I think a 123 is actually safer than some of the modern remote tank stoves. If the pump leaks on a remote tank stove, you could be in a world of hurt. Gas everywhere + flame = really really bad. A friend of mine was pumping up his remote tank stove when the one-way valve (NRV) in the pump failed. Fuel sprayed all over him while the stove was in operation. Fortunately, he was using kerosene that day. Had he been using white gasoline, he'd have probably been in the burn ward and would have been scarred for life. (shudder)

The Svea 123 is pretty rock solid, although you have to be super careful not to overheat them. If the safety release valve in the cap goes, you'll basically have a flamethrower on your hands. Be sure to point the cap away from your body.

HJ

Vargo hexagon is just a platform with holes plus windscreen, I can't imagine paying $50 for essentially a hobo stove.

Yes, but it's a titanium hobo stove.

There is a part of me that wonders why people carry small wood stoves. Why not just make a circle of rocks and light a fire?

I think the answer lies along the following lines: one is that a stove provides a platform on which to cook, two the fire (if the stove is designed well) burns better and more efficiently, and three there's a smaller "footprint," the fire is more contained in other words. But I'm hijacking my own thread here. Maybe it's worth a new thread...

HJ

Jim..i had the safety valve on a very old Primus 71 blow and it did not make much more than a candle type flame that i was able to blow out..it relit of course so i just let it go until the pressure was normal.i would think if the cap is in good shape with the proper setting built into it you should not get a flamethrower...but it was a once only thing for me so i can't say how another stove might act.

I've heard stories of a "candle" flame like you described, but I've also heard of "flamethrower" flames. Personally, I wouldn't want to rely too much on a 50 year old SRV functioning at 100% correctly.

What I do, is if the stove seems to be burning really hot, is turn it down. Less heat, less pressure to the tank, less likelihood of "popping" the SRV. The way I tell is to listen to the pulse of the stove. If it's pulsing more rapidly than usual and the flames are really jumping, to my mind it's time to turn it down a bit. After someone has used that type of stove for a bit, I think they'll know what I mean.

HJ

Continuing the hijack: Campfire pits scattered all over the place in suburban areas or heavily visited areas is not a good thing. (In remote areas, a nice campfire pit in the right spot is a nice thing, IMHO). It is all about the impact and footprint - the more people, the less the foot print should, IMHO.


Then there is the issue of forest fire risk.


Done the right way, there is little doubt you can minimize the environmental impact and the risk of forest fire from a small fire. But then again, there are other options.


I've read the praise for those small wood stoves, and I think I can understand the fascination. When you factor in that you don't have to carry any fuel the weight and volume is pretty decent.


I personally hate disposable grills. Instead, I've purchased some steel plates that are hinged together with steel wire. Fairly heavy, about 4 pounds, but it packs totally flat. It serves dual purpose as a platform for making small fires. I'll bring that when we're going by car or on those Sunday family trips where we're not going far anyway.

If I carry a wood stove, I'd at least make it a wood gas stove. As far as the vargo hexgon goes, all it needs is another inner shell to become one.

A huge advantage of stoves is convenience and speed, especially when thing get damp and cold. You can have water boiling under adverse conditions in the same amount of time it takes to get a wood fire started. A wood gassifier has some attraction, but you still are dependent on dry wood quality and availability. In really dry, incendiary conditions, nothing is as safe as a gas canister stove, except no stove at all. Just eat your Gorp and be quiet.

If the debate is between a wood fire for cooking vs. a stove, that's one thing. I've done both, and a stove is vastly more convenient and generally more reliable. The trade off is that one has to carry more weight with a stove vs. simply just carrying some kind of pot if one uses wood.

The question in my mind is more: If one is going to use wood, why carry a wood stove? Why not just make do with whatever materials are at hand? I think I'll split this off into a new thread.

HJ

Jim,

Any suggestions on where to get a replacement windscreen for my MSR stove?

Blake
www.outdoorquest.biz

The easiest is to go to just about any online outdoor retailer. Not that REI is any better than any other retailer, but here's a link to an MSR windscreen on REI's site. $15.00 + shipping is the going rate.

You can also check eBay. If one is being offered, sometimes you can pick it up for less than retail.

You can also MYOG (Make Your Own Gear). The lid to caterer's food containers is about the right gauge. Some people use aluminum flashing from the hardware store, but I find flashing to be too stiff.

If none of those options appeal to you, PM me, and I'll make you one. I make my own custom windscreens, and I have some sheet aluminum of the appropriate gauge.

HJ

HJ,

I don't have any pictures of the stoves, but as soon as I find them I will try to take some pictures. A quick description of the two sizes (they look almost identical without reference to size) is that the larger one will take 6 Esbit tabs for storage and the smaller one will only take 4 when you fold it up. You might have to work to get 4 of the new tabs in the plastic packaging. The folding one is available in most places, it folds flat for carrying (good for several uses) and it great to pack in a survival kit.

Respectfully,

Jerry

Hi, Jerry,

It sounds like the 4-tab holding stove is the one that's commonly available in sporting goods stores. Here is such a "pocket" Esbit stove at REI.

I personally am not all that hot on this particular model. I find it a little hard to light, but it does fold up well and being able to put 4 tabs inside the stove is nice. I prefer the little Tibetan Ti Wing Stove that I profiled on my blog. It's easier to light, more compact, and very light weight, but I know others who don't like the Ti Wing. Each to his own I suppose.

If you get a chance to post a photo of the larger one, that would be cool. Did the larger one have a specific purpose? Is it meant to burn multiple tabs at a time for larger pots?

HJ