I'm not a climber, but I was wondering:

Could you friction knots to make paracord descenders that could control your speed? E.g., like one of the knots here: http://www.chockstone.org/TechTips/Prusik.htm?

Or, assuming you have enough paracord, quadruple it up and twist to make a larger bundle, then do a leg wrap or dulfersitz for a controlled descent. Specifically, I'm thinking about the "Surviving Disaster" Towering Inferno episode (see Part 6).

Ultimately, if you are planning for a situation of this sort, then better to prepare adequately than rely on something that is not suitable for the task. It seems to me that you can get a starter kit with 100' rope, bag, figure-8 and carabiner for around $150, and spend another $30-50 on a harness. There are also emergency building escape kits, primarily designed for firefighters, running between $150 and $200 (plus harness).

With lift tickets running over $60/day, if this is a potential risk for you, the $200 seems a reasonable precaution. Many skiers spend more than that just on their boots.

Finally, you there was a lengthy discussion about using paracord to repell out of buildings in this thread:
http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=187229&page=1

Take a look at how much work it is to safely rescue people off a low chairlift. Who/what would you trust more? Your little bag of rope and harness in your inexperienced hands or a pro who is equipped to keep you alive..



Another example with single rope.

Do you have a time code? Those videos are 42 minutes long.

To thos who asked, I didn't use anything special for 7mm rope, just a belay/rappel plate that looks like a metal circle with two oval slots, and a large diameter tubing auto locking carabiner. I used the same set up to rappel thousands of feet of fixed line on mountaineering trips. Belay plates are out of fashion now, replaced with ATC and Reverso type devices.

Later, I used an original Black Diamond ATC with single strand 7mm cord a fat carabiner. That is the key item, a carabiner with thick tubing.

The new BD Guide device, my current choice, is rated to work with 7.7 mm - 11mm rope but will handle 7mm using a Petz Attache carabiner.

I would like to make a few points:

1) Rappelling is dangerous. In Yosemite Valley, rappelling kills as many climbers as does lead climbing. There must be fifty ways to die while rappelling (at least). There are many critical elements in a rappel system and failure or malfunction of any one can end things badly. I have dealt with the aftermath of rappelling accidents and, believe me, it is not a good way to die.

While it doesn't require physical strength or even particularly great coordination, rappelling does demand great attention to detail and concentration - occasionally even creative problem solving. You must know what you are doing. It is not something you should learn from a book; achieving true competence takes time and experience in varied situations.

2) Paracord has been around a long time and climbers tried using for various applications right after WWII. I remember reading in an edition of Accidents in North American Mountaineering years ago, after the discussion of an incident where paracord failure killed a climber that basically paracord had no legitimate application in climbing.

That holds true today. Find me a responsible climber or group who will advocate using paracord for rappelling or any other life support function. Two of the best written sources, Montaineering: The Freedom of the Hills and the caver's bible, On Rope do not mention use of paracord for any climbing functio.

Cavers are beginning to use thinner ropes for vertical travel in some very specialized situations - very deep caves where the total weight of the rope can be very critical. Here we are talking 6mm or 7mm rope, used with great care.

3) This whole discussion arose over a fictional occurrence - a movie script, for heaven's sakes. When I am out in wintry conditions, I try and keep minimum bivouac gear with me- HeatSheet, fire making materials, and something to eat and drink. These will be useful in any number of situations where I might be stranded and have to spend the night out, including the very unlikely possibility of being stranded on a lift overnight. I really can't see the need to carry a significant amount of specialized gear to gaurd against a problem that is not likely to ever occur.

I guess the question might be: How many people have died trying to rappel versus how many have died from being stranded overnight on a chairlift? I suspect the answer is several hundred rappellers and no chairlift victims.

"I guess the question might be: How many people have died trying to rappel versus how many have died from being stranded overnight on a chairlift? I suspect the answer is several hundred rappellers and no chairlift victims."

I suspect that the real answer is no one, or almost no one has ever died trying to rappel out of a chair lift. Here is my reasoning.

Firstly, for the most part chair lifts are very reliable. In the event that they do stop working for more than the few minutes typical of loading/unloading issues, stranded riders are informed by ski patrol and mountain employees about the repair/rescue status so those contemplating self evacuation probably wouldn't bother to try.

Secondly, the few individuals who do actually carry self-evacuation gear probably now how to use it, such as ski patrol and mountain employees and know when it is acceptable to use. Lastly, I just haven't seen any comments on such a things in the news or online at any ski/snowboard forums.

What I have seen first hand and learned of in the news are injuries to people caused by jumping off of temporarily stropped lifts onto what they think is soft snow from what they thought, wasn't too high.

The whole, stranded on a chair lift (not enclosed tram/gondola) scenario is utterly silly to me, since at most resorts where I've patrolled or skied the standard practice is that when a chair is "closed", access is limited while the chairs continue to run and each chair is inspected. In some cases this means flipping seats up to limit snow collection and in other cases, just insuring that there are no passengers or damage to chairs.

Also, patrollers, groomers and other mountain workers are out on the slopes long after and well before the resort is closed and would likely notice someone stranded on a chairlift. Please note, this does mean they'll see you if you are stuck in a tree well, lost in a more remote part of the resort or out in the side country.

As a note, clearwater also mentioned his ski patrol organization carried self evacuation gear.

To a big extent this hypothetical discussion is a bit silly. But for me it's raised one obvious practical outcome ...

I've got 200 feet of static line sitting in my garage. So I'm going to coil it and move it to my truck where it's accessible, along with a harness, some carabiners, some slings, and a rappel device. If you are going to get a job done - you need to use the RIGHT tools. Descending on fine diameter ropes is not a great idea. Now ... am I ever going to actually need to do this in a disaster? I really seriously doubt it. But it also makes no sense for the gear to be sitting in my garage collecting dust. I need to keep my SPOT satellite device with me too - I usually leave that at home (except when I am going on remote trips).

Pete #2

Right. I think the thread has moved from What If's from the highly fictionalized movie Frozen, into a debate on the use of 550 cord as a rappelling device from a ski lift.

As many of us have said before, in a real world situation, 550 is a horrible way to self rescue and there are better ways to be prepared. Take the money you'd likely spend on hospital bills and buy a PLB. I'm a fan of ACR units. I own a SPOT2, DeLorme & SPOT have a combined unit out now to type out personalized text messages.

You also need the RIGHT training...Rappelling mistakes are more often then not, unforgiving and here is a perfect and very timely example of the consquences when rapelling goes wrong.

No matter what, David Cicotello knew he had to survive. Cicotello, 57, was stranded on a ledge in No Man's Canyon, in the rugged wilderness some 180 miles southeast of Salt Lake City. His climbing partner — 70-year-old brother Louis — laid motionless on the ground 100 feet below, having fallen while rappelling.

By the second day, the brothers were in the North Fork of No Man's Canyon. They rappelled 40 feet to the ledge in a crevice. There was 100 feet to go to the canyon bottom. The plan: Eat lunch after rappelling down, then walk an old horse trail back to the rim.
Louis set an anchor and fed rope through a rappel ring. And then went over the ledge. Moments later, the rope whipped through the ring and disappeared. David called out to his brother; there was no reply.

I went to Air Assault school in the Army which is all about rappelling, then used that in a few other Army courses. I've rappelled from cliffs, buildings and helicopters using the traditional technique, Hollywood and Aussie methods. I rock climbed for several years before and after as lead and belay but haven't been in a harness for over ten years.

Even with all that background, there is no way I would trust myself today to tie in, tie off correctly. I need a 'safety' to inspect what I do before going over the side. It's made me think of getting re-certified in rope work at a climbing gym just for my piece of mind.

I totally agree with Teslinhiker. With ropes, the RIGHT training is more important than just having the gear.