Thats exactly what i said, airguns are useless in any wilderness sort of situation. I meen how often does a person ever get close enough to the animal to kill it with an airgun?

After just a short distance the pellets lose it's power and speed, and if there is just a little bit of wind the pellets will go flying of to some other place hell knows where. Admit it's a little bit silly to bring up airguns when talking about what kind of caliber firearm would be best suited in a wilderness/survival like situation.

And they are to expensive aswell i guess.

Interesting analogy there bountyhunter, it's always fun to know where diffrent pepole direct there attention, and get their ideas and analogys from.

My note on the silencer was due to the fact that in relation to gunpowder firearms the sound from an airgun is minimal.

>>I meen how often does a person ever get close enough to the animal to kill it with an airgun?<<

Getting close to game is part of hunting.

Most shooters experienced with airguns consider their effective limit to be about 30 yards on small game. People all over the world take animals at much closer ranges than that every day, with all sorts of weapons.

In the case of a survival situation, how far is it to a bird feeder in your backyard?

>> airguns are useless in any wilderness sort of situation... silly to bring up airguns<<

Well, among a great many others, noted "survival" authors Mel Tappan (in "Survival Guns") and Ragnar Benson ( in "Live off the land in the City and Country") have disagreed with your thesis.

If you read my original post, you'll see that I did not advocate airguns as a primary survival tool, but only as a supplement to others.

But then, if you read my orignal post, you'll see that I did, very explicitly, try to direct it only to the open-minded. If you prefer to disregard it, please do.

Marcus,
I have no idea where you are getting your information, but you would be wise indeed to listen to experience. Airguns are not useless in a survival situation, my personal best was 13 rabbits in one morning, thats alot of food, all taken with an air rifle.
I think your experience is with a Walmart crosman, THESE ARE NOT THE AIR RIFLES WE ARE DISCUSSING. My longest shot with an air rifle was 62 yds resulting in a clean kill. After 25 years of hunting big and small game, I would say my average range for all shots is around 50 yds, so to answer your question I almost always get that close to game.

It is silly of you to disreguard a very useful piece of gear. Chris

Presumed Lost,
By all means take the plunge, PCP rifles are great. But, admittedly there is something to be said for grabbing your rifle and a tin of pellets and taking off, without worrying about tanks or pumps, my next rifle is going to be a Air Arms tx 200 in 22.

To talk about PCPs a bit, the main advantage I see is extended shooting with out filling, fast follow up shot, and no recoil, so, unlike a springer follow though is not nearly as important, therefore you can shoot smaller groups with less practice. I don't fill from a scuba tank, I have a pump, which is also expensive. It is not bad to fill your rifle with the pump and I get about 40 full power shots from one fill. My hunting pellets are beeman crow magnums and kodiaks both of which will shoot into tiny little bughole groups at 40yds. Bob, my hunting partner, has the daystate, and an R1 and R7. Air rifles have opened an entire new realm to my hunting and shooting sports, anyone that turns their nose up is missing out on a whole lot of practice and fun. BTW my wife cooks some rabbit and dumplings that is out of this world. Chris

Chris,

Thanks for the insight. I have a SSP target air rifle as well as the springers, so I'm familiar with the advantages of not having all that moving mass... although, I have an old Feinwerkbau FWB-300S "recoilless" target springer that comes close to the shooting experience of the SSP... but neither comes close to the power of your PCP rifles.

I personally find shooting the springers accurately an interesting challenge- but I have to admit, the SSP is easier, requires less concentration, you can relax more. But then, most of my air rifle shooting is at 10m with "iron" sights.

The most powerful air rifle I have is a lowly RWS/Cometa 94 in .22 (nominally 825 fps, not bad for an inexpensive springer) which is actually a pretty sweet rifle, handles well, smooth cocking, nice manners, but in need of a trigger job I'll get around to, someday... maybe this winter.

Do I understand you filled them from scratch with a hand pump? I know some people who use them to top off, but I was given to understand that filling one from scratch that way was quite a task. One also hears about condensation problems. If those aren't really problems, I might be more tempted... <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Presumed,
I wouldn't say that 825fps is low powered, plenty good for most air rifle tasks. As you mentioned power wise, you would not believe my PH6, it is a canon. When I bought it I had no idea. I had to change my normal metal and plywood backstop, now I have an old kevlar vest that I use that is holding up well.

Now let me tempt away. Filling a rifle from o to 250 bar with a manual pump is a little daunting, but after the first fill, topping off isn't so bad, I never let pressure get below about 90 bar, or try not to. It isn't as easy as cocking a barrel or lever though. As far as condensation, I live in AZ so don't really have that problem, if I move to the east coast I will buy an inline filter which I have been told takes care of the problem. I think for field, hunting, or pest control the PCPs are the way to go, even with the issues we talked about. You obviously love air rifles, I would say to definitely give a pcp a try. www.airgunsofarizona.com usually has a decent selection of used guns, if price is an object, I think for your purposes the Air Arms S200 might be perfect. Another good site is www.straightshooters.com. Chris

Marcus_who:

I agree that an air gun is not as loud as most powder burning weapons, but in stealth, every little bit helps.

Witness the number of bowhunters that use string silencers even though a bowstrings twang is infinitely more silent than an air gun.

Bountyhunter

<img src="images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />. That must be some air rifle.

Was that link supposed to be www.airgunsofarizona.com ?

Ditchfield,
I guess my proof reading skills aren't very good, thanks for the correction.

It is an unbelievable air rifle. In the states we are not limited to any certain energy level. In England, where I see you are from, there are laws that limit an air rifle's energy, the legal limit is 12fpe (foot pounds of energy). My rifle easily doubles that figure, with power to spare, but 12 fpe is plenty good for game up to the size of rabbits.

You are lucky though, the best air rifles in the world are made in England, in my opinion, my daystate, webley and scott and a host of others. Chris