The State Court System of NY has just released its legal manual on what can legally be done in case of emergencies. I haven't read the whole thing yet, but it's a bit chilling.Quarantines, courtroom clampdowns, etc. Link to NYTimes story posted last night and also a free pdf of the booklet here.

Thank you for posting the links.

This is an essential aspect of government emergency preparedness -- balancing the greater good with individual rights and freedom (I don't want Typhoid Mary sitting next to me, family or friends on the train). And it's certainly good to have this debate and try to sort out legal issues in advance of a crisis.

I haven't read the pamphlet yet, does it say whether the state or local government would be empowered to commandeer the contents of your home (i.e. food, water, meds) in addition to using it as shelter or a medical dispensary?

This part of the article raised the question for me:

After mentioning that houses or businesses can be commandeered to shelter victims or serve as medical dispensaries, it continues that “violations of individual property rights, if actionable, would generally be sorted out after the need for such actions has ended.”

Wow, this is really useful information for New Yorkers! It's good that the state is being premptive on thinking about such things though a lot of people are going to argue about the loss of rights. It's definitely a case of grays where you have to decide between two evils. I'm glad I don't have to make those decisions on such a massive scale.

Horus, any idea if Texas has something like this or how to find out?

-Blast

One would think they would go after larger businesses first. No sense in raiding your or my cache to feed three people when they could raid walmart to feed 30.
I watched an old movie where there was an earthquake and a policeman wanted to take some guys 4x4 but couldn't figure out how to drive it so I've added enough to my truck that its too complicated for anyone else to figure out.

As a person who grew up in the age of Selective Service, and who was marched down to register when I turned eighteen, I consider myself slightly above average in understanding of what the state/government can do when it flexes its muscles. Worrying about them coming for you shotgun and can of beans isn't the worse of it.

The state can pull you off your front porch, splinters under the fingernails and all, haul you off to some godforsaken place and order you to charge machine-gun nests with a sharpened stick if they want to. Being a Co, conscientious observer, is an option. In which case they don't give you the stick and they order you to drag wounded people who had sticks back so they can be patched up and given another stick.

Even that isn't the worse of it. Look what we did to people with Japanese ancestry during WW2. The land of the free, the brave ... the land of confiscated property and internment camps. Yes, if things get scary enough, in reality or imagined, we quickly compromise our ideals and scapegoat a handy group of 'people who don't fit in'.

On the bright side, I think Blast has is right that this is a good thing. Better to have standards, policies and procedures thought through, agreed to, and established as sound and rational than trying to make it up on the fly. People get into a panic and next thing they are hauling people who don't look like 'us' off to interment camps before anyone bothers to figure out if it makes sense.

I not only registered for Selective Service, I was also one of the chosen few who received a letter beginning "Greetings...).

The one year, nine months, three days, nine hours, and twenty-two minutes I spent averting the Commie menace were easily the worst in my life. Life was rigidly controlled. As a friend put it, "Everything not mandatory is prohibited." What is ironic is that my duties back then were not at all challenging. I could carry them out today, as a matter of fact (I wound up my service typing letters for the Commanding General, 1st Cav Division, Korea (no strikeovers, no erasures! and taking orders for coffee for participants in those numerous high level meetings).

But at least I got R&R in Japan, and got to climb Fuji in the winter, along with two Japanese lads I met along the way. It was a great trip, although we neglected to exchange gear lists.

I also witnessed numerous examples of frivolous waste up close and personal, and I think that in the long run has made me a more informed and responsible citizen...

Pre-planning is excellent, but I'd be willing to bet that no matter what is mandated, the severity (or perceived severity) of a crisis will be inversely proportional to ones rights. If power and authority is there, it is likely to be used. Its not like you can really do anything about it, but awareness always helps. I mean, the last thing you want during a crisis is to be tossed into the can for complaining the authorities violated your rights under such and such clause.

This depends on the emergency crisis. Being a state prisoner can sometimes afford greater rights than the general civil population as the state generally has greater provision to ensure the survival of the prisoner population over the civil population.

These laws exist in every political subdivision of the United States. They vary in strength only on the way they are written, and for the limited number of cases that have been able to challenge them.

A state of emergency places control of all government operations soley in the hand of the Chief Elected Official for the political subdivision, the only control is from a higher-level political subdivision. This person may or may not be educated in legal issues, emergency issues, or have any interest in this subject, although it is a critical part of the job of a leader.

At least, this is my understanding. Always good for these people to have competent legal council around.

Link does not work for me. I get "invalid url".

Nomad

I don't know, but since I'm doing this thing in Houston I'm going to dig around. Stay tuned.

I just checked all the links and they seem to be working. The link to the manual may have been overwhelmed yesterday. Pretty quick today though.

"A state of emergency places control of all government operations soley in the hand of the Chief Elected Official for the political subdivision..."

O...M...G! Queen Christine with unlimited power!

RUN! RUN FASTER! FASTER!

Sue

Absolutely correct and a part of the National Incident Management Plan. It's a long read, but worth a look:

http://www.fema.gov/emergency/nims/

NIMS is a defacto alternative governance plan for the USA.

I tried, I honestly did try to read the FEMA NIMS documents but quickly came to the conclusion that the USA would be pretty much doomed in a full scale National Emergency based on the difficulties encountered by the emergency services during the London terrorist 7/7 attack response. NIMS it would appear is nothing more than graduate management gobbledygook speak. Combine the management speak gobbledygook with the reliance on poorly designed thin client based Internet based management and reporting tools (probably Oracle and Siebel) and flaky communications together with having some lawyers and politicians (show business for ugly folks) poking their noses in and you have a recipe for a much wider disaster.

'Ok chaps, it now looks like we have a major incident and we all now need to move to the Gold Command control room'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12598785

Lets hope the pens still work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xR3YvrNpssM

Off topic, but I'm pretty sure all males still have to sign up for it. Difference is, I joined willingly. It's easier to get the job you want that way!

But..but...with NIMS you'll have accurate, up-to-date and legally defensible paperwork about all the people you didn't have time to help because you were writing sitreps...and everyone has an internet-connected laptop with them at all times when they are pulling people out of a flooded river...

Some folks did give NIMS some credit in the I-35 collapse

http://officer.com/publication/article.jsp?pubId=1&id=40238&submit_comment=y#commentform

There is a saying: amateurs talk tactics while professionals talk logistics. Enthusiasm, common sense, good-ol American know-how, and can-do spirit will get you through a situation with a small number of people. As soon as you break a dozen souls, perhaps two dozen if you have a lot of ability and a good memory, you start to need organization, documentation, and some sort of bureaucracy.

The bureaucracy needn't be large. Three people; executive, adjutant, record-keeper can cover a lot of situations. How you divide up responsibility isn't important as long as all the slots are covered.

Once you get to a disaster involving hundreds of thousands it is documentation, paperwork, that saves you. And yes, the difference between people living and dying is planning and logistics. Neither of which happen without some sort of documentation to quantify and localize the issues.