Thought about this filling up today.

My Escape's tank is 14 gallons- 56 quarts, or 1792 ounces. If I put in a 20oz bottle of dry gas, that is not quite 4% of the tank. But I'm already putting in 10% ethanol blend anyway.

Don't know if it is needed. Although I do keep some around to fuel some of stoves.

Ethanal, methanol, and alcohol are all hydroscopic. Hydroscopic compounds draw water from the atmosphere contaminating gas. Hence, your need for dry gas products is higher.

"Dry" gas?

HJ

Hiker Jim,Dry Gas? An Additive to render gasoline that has Ethanol in it,Back to Just Gasoline!Ethanol Has a certain % of Water content!ie.,Lower Octane,Higher carbon Build-up,Corrosion to Carbs/Injectors,etc.

Ah. So, "dry" gas is just what we used to call gasoline before they started monkeying around with it. No ethanol.

HJ

Best practice to protect an engine when not in use that uses any type of alcohol mixed with gas is to shut off the fuel line and run the engine until it runs out of gas. Engine fuel systems with gas and ethanol usually corrode with rust when left sitting. Most fuel treatments sold to remove water from fuel actually are mostly composed of an alcohol type product which makes the situation worse. Check the internet for a lot more information.

Good alcohol is best used for drinking and in stoves.

Hmm. Wikipedia disagrees. "Dry gas is an alcohol-based additive used in automobiles to prevent any water in the fuel from freezing, or to restore combustive power to gasoline spoiled by water."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_gas

But then again, that's from Wikipedia. Best taken with a grain of salt (or a dram of good ethanol).

- - -

I haven't heard the term "dry gas" before now -- is it a brand name?

If the gas at the pump has 10% ethanol, there probably is no need to add more alcohol to prevent gas-line freezing.

In my part of the world, when temperatures drop well below -30C, freezing of water in the fuel system can leave you stranded. I have seen this many, many times. A couple of small bottles of methyl hydrate is standard in my winter kit, and it has saved me and others from a lot of grief. I last used it when the temperature dropped below -40C and I had to park the Mazda for three hours (social obligation). She would sort of catch, then nothing; I dumped a bottle of methyl hydrate in the tank, went back inside to the refreshments table, and half an hour later she took right off. The trick is to recognize the problem and stop cranking before your battery is dead.

For people who have heated garages, SOP is to keep the fuel tank full or mostly full. This reduces the amount of warm air (with its entrained moisture) that can enter the tank and, over time, accumulate.

Water is heavier than gasoline, and water will separate from gasoline (like oil and water). If that small amount of water is sucked into the fuel injectors, it won't burn. That's why you added the de-icer stuff to the non-ethanol gasoline, to mix with the water and burn it without stalling the engine. But I don't think you ever added enough de-icer to bring the total up to 10%.

So, you shouldn't need to add de-icer to your fuel if you're using 10% ethanol.

Alcohols can burn with quite a lot of water in them -- rubbing alcohol is 30% water, and still burns, although not as hot. Ethanol can be added to diesel fuel, and water is required!

I find it amusing how many people describe the horrors of being forced to use gasoline with 10% ethanol, when they spent extra money adding alcohol to gasoline themselves for years! AND paying $20+/gallon for it!

Sue

Just use Methyl Hydrate AKA gas line anti-freeze. I use this with Ethanol blended fuel with no troubles. In fact the bottle of gas line anti-freeze I have, states it works with Ethanol blended fuel.

Years ago, living up north, the gas line in my truck froze despite me previously dumping in about 1/2 liter of gas line anti-freeze. The air temp was at -42 F that night and 2 hours later with the help of a tiger torch, a 20 lb bottle of propane and completely encircling the bottom of my truck with plywood sheeting, the torch burning underneath the truck eventually warmed and thawed the gas line enough to re-start the engine. Needless to say, I dumped in lot more anti-freeze after that...

Good story, Teslin_. I find that a couple of good doses of methyl hydrate is enough to clear the water out of the system, so I don't need to use it constantly. But some vehicles have more problems than others.

I think our American cousins have a lot more mandated ethanol in their fuel right now. So the total amount of alcohol is a concern, especially with older vehicles not designed for it.

(Our day is coming, since this back-door-agricultural-subsidy will be hitting Canadian pumps--and wallets--very soon.)

Outside ethanol-mix fuel countries, standard operating procedure for years was a tiny amount (a bottle cap or so) of denaturated alcohol (the stuff you burn in Trangia stoves) every other tank or so in cold weather.

I have been doing a personal experiment with 85% ethanol this winter. I travel in some remote areas of MN, WI, and IA for my job. I have been a little leery of alcohol fuel in winter, but so far I have not had any problems. The coldest night so far that I have have left my car out in a hotel parking lot was -18 F. The car started right up in the morning. The big test will be later this week, when the next clipper comes through and pushes the overnight temps down to -27 F.

B_H, is your vehicle a dual-fuel type?

My work Suburban came from the factory as dual-fuel, and I've heard that that is what most government-use vehicles are. (Kind of two-faced: ready to use an alternative fuel, but preach against it to keep the favor of BigOil.)

If I remember correctly (no guarantees), you are far more likely to experience problems with bio-diesel than with alcohol in cold weather, but I think there can also be a problem with alcohol separating from the gasoline, and then it produces less power. I think that's how it goes. And the kind of alcohol is important, too. Methyl alcohol separates quite easily, ethanol does, but not as badly, and butyl alcohol doesn't at all.

Pure ethanol freezes at -173°F (-114°C), and pure gasoline freezes about -150°F, but I wonder by how much a little water throws those figures off?

Sue

http://drygas.com/

Standard disclaimers.

Heh Everyone here should know about HEET as a stove fuel! HEET is a Drygas additive.

"HEET is the #1 Selling Gas-Line Antifreeze & Water Remover. It removes water from the fuel system to prevent gas-line freeze-up and harmful rust and corrosion. Iso-HEET is the #1 Selling Premium Fuel-line Antifreeze, Water Remover & Injector Cleaner. It absorbs 5 times more water than regular gas-line antifreeze, while it cleans fuel injectors and carburetors. It’s designed for use year-round in ALL 2-cycle and 4-cycle gasoline engines and diesel engines."


If only they knew 50% of their market share is campers looking for alcohol stove fuel.

If they knew it was a 'sporting goods' product, they would double the price.

Sue

i put Heet in my window washer fluid,it really clears the ice.

"i put Heet in my window washer fluid,it really clears the ice."

Stop at a truck stop and buy the alcohol-based antifreeze for something like $3. Cheaper than Heet, by far.

Sue

i ment to say i added it to the washer fluid to beef it up,maybe half a can at a time.

I do the same thing when it gets really cold, except I use methyl hydrate. Otherwise the cheapo washer fluid turns to ice on a cold windshield--not good.

And that, Sue, is why we don't tell them :P

Alcohol fuel comes in 4 grades in the rural areas here. I have tried both E-75 and E-85 in my flex-fuel Chevy Impala this winter with good results. When I purchased the car, the technician told me that the tank should be near empty when switching fuel types to avoid confusing the onboard computer that adjusts for different octanes. The coldest weather I have left it out overnight has been 18 below zero. I have not had any trouble with long distance driving, freezing, lack of power, or starting. There is a small difference in mileage and power, but in flatland freeway driving, the power difference is imperceptable, and fuel economy is 85-90% of gasoline. The price can be as much as 90 cents a gallon less than gasoline, but more oftern it is 50 cents less. I only wish our Chevy Trailblazer had the flex fuel option too. I am seeing more Suburbans and big pickups at the E-85 pumps these days. I'll ask some of them how their mileage is.

I pay a lot for fuel because I travel for a living. I don't mind the cost as much when cutting a check to Iowa Sheik Ole Olafsonn and his wife and 6 kids for the fuel.

As they say, "buy local" whenever you can.

Sue