#212156 - 12/01/10 04:25 PM
Re: Fire Extinguishers - Auto & Home
[Re: Art_in_FL]
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Old Hand
Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
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What kind of rating does the NFPA give FireFreeze products? I will tell you that dry-powder ABC fire extinguishers are not may favorites. They all spread their powder far and wide, use one in a house and you will find it on every horizontal surface in every room, doors closed or not, and the powder isn't easy to clean up after it sets for a time. Worse, if the powder is mono-ammonium phosphate based it is corrosive to many metals as soon as moisture hits it. That may be true, but imho an out of control fire has a far more corrosive effect than the dry powder compound. Better to face clean up on the powder than rebuild on the house... Still, its good to not need the fire extinguisher in the first place in fire suppression, such as know how and when to smother flames (stove fire) rather than attack with an extinguisher. A friend of a friend was kind of embarrassed over the thanksgiving holiday when he fired his extinguisher at a stove fire and spread hot oil all over his kitchen from the blast, rather than covering and smothering the fire. Friend ^friend was once a volunteer with a local rural FD, and said he just didn't think before taking aim. At least he was up front about his goof, he sent out an email to his friends warning them not to make the same mistake - there are videos up on youtube and places like that describing the best way to deal with hot oil on a stovetop etc.
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#212165 - 12/01/10 04:53 PM
Re: Fire Extinguishers - Auto & Home
[Re: Lono]
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Old Hand
Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 900
Loc: NW NJ
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Yup, often the best way to deal with a stove fire is to simply put the lid on, if you can safely get close enough to do so.
Be careful taking the lid back off again - if the oil or grease is still above auto-ignition temperature it will spontaneously re-light as soon as oxygen reaches it.
_________________________
- Tom S.
"Never trust and engineer who doesn't carry a pocketknife."
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#212166 - 12/01/10 05:11 PM
Re: Fire Extinguishers - Auto & Home
[Re: Lono]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
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A friend of a friend was kind of embarrassed over the thanksgiving holiday when he fired his extinguisher at a stove fire and spread hot oil all over his kitchen from the blast... Over the Thanksgiving holiday, I saw a video clip on the news about a kitchen fire. There was a turkey in the oven and there were a lot of flames. This woman was determined to pull that bird out of the oven even though there was a frightening amount of flames licking around her hands. Unbelievable. Reminded me of that scene from the old TV series Kung Fu where a young David Carridine has to carry that red hot iron pot full of burning coals with just his wrists. Anyway, someone pulled her back and closed the oven door. You could hear the woman still screaming about saving the turkey. The flames used up the oxygen and died down all by themselves. No need for an extinguisher. Like Lono was saying, the woman was probably just not thinking and was fixated on all the effort she put into that turkey, but still, she was risking great personal injury and even burning down the rest of her house by trying to pull that bird out. If anything, it's a good lesson on why we need to periodically remind ourselves of what to do in certain situations--basic first aid, basic fire fighting principles (including getting everyone OUT if you can't control a fire quickly), what to do in some natural disaster like a tornado, earthquake, etc.
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#212178 - 12/02/10 02:21 AM
Re: Fire Extinguishers - Auto & Home
[Re: Dagny]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
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Common rookie mistake to hold the fire extinguisher too close to the fire. Instructors tell you to take three steps back from where you think you should be. Fires can quite literally explode when first attacked with an extinguisher. Better to give it a 'ranging shot' from afar and advance to 'fire for effect'.
The corrosive nature of mono-ammonium phosphate is something to keep in mind when you buy extinguishers. It is less of an issue once there is an active fire. On the other hand an acquaintance once had a fine collection of firearms, some of them museum quality antiques. A minor fire, essentially a trashcan fire caused by a spark from grinding igniting wood scraps carelessly tossed into in a metal bin, caused him to use the extinguisher. He still has the guns but many of them, mostly those not in sealed cases or sleeves, have pitting that eliminated a lot of their value. In retrospect he admits it would have been easy to have simply carry the bin outside, or put it out with the dregs of yesterdays coffee. Evidently is was that small a fire.
Dry-powder ABC fire extinguishers are the number one units sold. The biggest selling points are that they are idiot-proof, no need to know or understand different classes of fire, they are ABC rated, and they are cheap.
They are not the most effective of types for any class of fire. Pound-for-pound most foam units beat the powder on both class-A and B fires. Powder neither cools nor blankets a fire. A class-A fire put out with a powder extinguisher will stay hot, can smolder, and may reignite.
Plain water is often better.
Very old-school but in a lot of situations, buildings with a lot of class-A materials, or where small amounts of grease or oil are the fuel, I would put more trust in a bucket of soapy water or sand.
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#212181 - 12/02/10 03:28 AM
Re: Fire Extinguishers - Auto & Home
[Re: Art_in_FL]
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Geezer in Chief
Geezer
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
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They are not the most effective of types for any class of fire. Pound-for-pound most foam units beat the powder on both class-A and B fires. Powder neither cools nor blankets a fire. A class-A fire put out with a powder extinguisher will stay hot, can smolder, and may reignite.
Plain water is often better.
Driving down the highway one day, I encountered a vehicle with a flaming tire. At the time, I had a dry powder extinguisher in my vehicle, so I stopped to help. Fortunately there was also a highway survey crew nearby, and they also responded, so we had about four or five dry powder units available to extinguish the fire. We would empty an extinguisher, putting out the flames. After about fifteen seconds, the tire would flare up again. After repeating this cycle a few times, we finally realized that the wheel was extremely hot (due to a dragging brake shoe) and was the source of reignition. A bit of water applied to the wheel finally calmed things down and got the fire out. The vehicle owner at that point opened his trunk, whereupon we saw a three gallon can of gas, uncapped. We were lucky that day.......
_________________________
Geezer in Chief
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#214785 - 01/12/11 07:08 AM
Re: Fire Extinguishers - Auto & Home
[Re: Dagny]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 358
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Just thought I'd bump this topic back up. If you don't have a fire extinguisher in your car, go out and buy one tomorrow and keep it in there.
Today while driving I came upon a car that had just caught fire. It must have happened less than a minute before I arrived because the engine compartment was barely smoking and there weren't really any flames. I was 2 cars behind, I immediately stopped and grabbed my fire extinguisher from behind my seat, while at the same time another lady grabbed an extinguisher from her car and gave it to the vehicle owner. He was spraying the hood of the car but it wasn't having any effect so I told him to pop up the hood of the car. I guess he misunderstood me, he popped the hood the came around front and tried to open the hood and was greeted with a rush of flames and dropped the hood again. Since I didn't have any gloves I was still trying to shoot through the small gap above the radiator, then tried from underneath or through the vents, but with no luck. Either way, we emptied 2 of the small size (I believe 5lb?) fire extinguishers and did nothing more than delay the fire. I could tell the fire wasn't out, and was beginning to grow again as soon as the extinguishers ran out. At that point there was nothing we could do but watch and wait, a motorcycle cop had arrived but no sign of the fire department, so there was nothing I could do except move my car out of the way. I'm sure the car is a total loss because by the time I left flames were already growing again and parts of car were literally melting onto the ground.
What I learned today:
1) Carry a fire extinguisher. A big one. A bigger one. Maybe 2 really big ones. Those small extinguishers are better than nothing, but not much better. Even though I've had to use one before to put out a kitchen fire, I was still surprised at how quickly they run out. It's probably 10, maybe 15 seconds at most, but in the excitement it really feels like you only get 2-3 seconds of use. It might be enough to help someone escape out of a burning car, but won't do much to put out the fire. I used to have 2 extinguishers strapped to my roll bar, but at some point I must have taken one out, I wish I had kept it in there. Even with 3 small extinguishers I doubt it would have made much of a difference, and it's probably not going to do much other than delay the fire a bit, but it's still better than sitting around watching someone car just go up in flames and being able to do nothing.
2) I'm going to keep some leather gloves next to the extinguisher. If the car's on fire, you're probably not gonna want to touch it, but if the fires in the engine compartment, it's pretty well sealed and i don't know how you're supposed to extinguish it if you can't even get to it. I think if I could have opened the hood a couple of inches just enough to get the nozzle underneath it might have worked. At the very least gloves might let you get a little closer without burning your hands
3)Fires grow very, very quickly. When I first saw it the car was barely beginning to burn. In the 10-15 seconds it took me to stop, get out and grab the extinguisher and run 20 ft to the car, the fire had already grown to a point that I was pretty sure that there was no hope of saving the car. I just wanted to make sure there wasn't anybody still inside.
4) I've been putting off buying a vehicle specific fire extinguisher because of the $200 price tag, but now it doesn't seem that expensive anymore. At the very least I'm going to upsize my current one to maybe a 20lb dry, because I'd rather deal with the mess of cleaning up the chemicals than watch my car burn to the ground.
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#214839 - 01/12/11 10:57 PM
Re: Fire Extinguishers - Auto & Home
[Re: Dagny]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
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ducktapeguy - I think you nailed it with the bigger is usually better thing on fire extinguishers. As long as it remains compact and light enough to have handy, limber quickly, and use efficiently.
Heavy leather gloves are a grand idea. I may slip a spare set of welding gauntlets in near the extinguisher.
I think you are right about extinguishers delaying a fire. If they don't put out a fire they might buy time to get people out and call for help.
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#214980 - 01/15/11 03:40 PM
Re: Fire Extinguishers - Auto & Home
[Re: Art_in_FL]
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Old Hand
Registered: 11/10/03
Posts: 710
Loc: Augusta, GA
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In CERT Training, participants are taught to not go after anything larger than a trash can as a rule of thumb.
(Note: The "rule of thumb" is also used to determine if you're far enough from danger for most things: hold your arm at arms length, close one eye, and look at whatever danger there is with your open eye and put your thumb over it. If it's completely blocked by your thumb, you're probably far enough away. Yeah, doesn't work for everything...).
Ensure that your fire extinguisher is mounted, and if you cannot mount it, make sure its in a heavy bag (to protect the pin and handle ) and that the bag cannot fly around in an accident.
You may be able to purchase an OEM extinguisher mount for some cars, as some countries require rental cars (maybe all?) to be equipped with a fire extinguisher and first aid kits.
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#215385 - 01/21/11 03:05 AM
Re: Fire Extinguishers - Auto & Home
[Re: Dagny]
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Member
Registered: 06/29/05
Posts: 134
Loc: Cypress, TX
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There's no worse feeling than having the extinguisher go empty when you still have fire to deal with. Buy the biggest one you can fit in the car. I recommend one with a flexible hose because if you are fighting an engine fire from beneath, some extinguishers won't operate upside down. You keep the extinguisher more or less upright and use the hose to snake around the chassis parts to spray up into the engine compartment. Hose is also good when you pop the hood open only a couple of inches, then insert hose as far as you can over the top of the radiator. For mounting mine inside my pickup I use two Davis Super Quick Fist strap/mounts. It's a boating product good for holding cylindrical objects like oxygen tanks and fire extinguishers. (Note: I have no affiliation to the company, it's just a great product!) One last thing to keep in mind is protecting the squeeze handle and pull ring from other objects and people moving around inside the car. Wouldn't want the extinguisher to go off inside the car while driving.
_________________________
AJ
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#215387 - 01/21/11 11:26 AM
Re: Fire Extinguishers - Auto & Home
[Re: Dagny]
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Addict
Registered: 11/24/05
Posts: 478
Loc: Orange Beach, AL
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I've seen H3R Halguard extinguishers used with great success. I have one in my daily driver and two in my "fun" car. They aren't cheap but they aren't ridiculously expensive either.
Standard disclaimer - No affiliation just a satisfied customer.
_________________________
"There is not a man of us who does not at times need a helping hand to be stretched out to him, and then shame upon him who will not stretch out the helping hand to his brother." -Theodore Roosevelt
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