I can assure you the ranger wasn't being "just nosey," just observant. Whatever the ranger saw through the window was in "plain view," and no rights were violated in his making this observation. This is a key point in search and seizure training in federal law enforcement and there is a lot of case law dealing with this issue, including several Supreme Court decisions. My LE training was a while ago, and I cannot recall the specific cases, but the principles involved go back to the Magna Carta (Bless you Brits for that!).

I looked over the website for a specific statement about camping on the trails but did not see any. I am confident, however, that had you set up an overnight camp within the Monument, you would have been politely but firmly instructed to return to the designated campground right away.

It is not routine in most parks to check the trail heads for overdue hikers; in many parks the volume is simply too high and many other duties occupy the ranger's time. Most searches are triggered by the "Ranger, Ranger, save my child" call coming through at 3 in the morning.

What surprises me about this situation was that the lady in question stated that she would not have survived the night without the successful search. Now it does get nippy at Chiricahua this time of year, but it doesn't get that cold, even at 5,000 feet in the winter.

One more comment and I will shut up and sit down-




No, of course not. The better rangers size up situations and take initiative; they are not your usual bureaucrats. Don't worry, the NPS has a good supply of the usual ones as well.

Based solely on how she got herself into trouble I would be tempted to conclude she's not a very experienced outdoors person. I would not take her assessment of being on the brink of dying all too seriously. But my usual media filter disclaimer applies: There might be other factors that the media fails to report.

Her relief of being rescued, however - now THAT I can understand

Last weekend I made my first venture out this fall/winter carrying my full day hike pack. I broke my shoulder in the summer and wanted to test my ability to carry the pack before we take our Scout group to winter camp next weekend. I've been using a smaller, single strap pack so far this year, but I'll be the senior leader for our younger kids next weekend, we're planning a long hike and I want to be prepared. Yup, I've got a back-up plan to carrying everything myself - other leaders and parents with us and are prepared share the load.

The full pack was definitely overkill for this hike but not so for next weekend. Anyway, I definitely overpacked and need to re-evaluate what I've got with me. My shoulder didn't hold up well so I'm rethinking my gear list, specifically with regard to weight. I will not compromise our safety.

Back the test hike and the reason for this post. My husband, two kids and I left at 3pm for a loop at a local marshland. We let the neighbors know where we were going, just in case. It's not far from civilization and not a difficult hike at all. We saw two other people on the trail and my husband and daughter had their cel phones with them. It was not a difficult hike and not very risky, though with a seven year old with ADHD, you never can tell what's going to happen. We usually average about two hours on that route, putting us on target to get back to the trail head just as the sun was setting. If someone had fallen and broken an ankle or something it wouldn't have been life or death, just uncomfortable for a while.

In this situation, I'm wondering what prompted the S&R response. Had our family choosen to stay out past dark, we weren't violating any rules. No camping is allowed but there are no time restrictions on using the area. We would have called the neighbors so they wouldn't worry, but if the S&R guys showed up just because we didn't make it back to the car by dark, it would have been totally useless. There was a small day pack in the backseat, along with an extra jacket. Would that have been enough to send in the calvary? Did she leave a note inthe window, outlining her intentions? Who knows but it makes me wonder too if she got the bill for the rescue, like so many of us on the forum have advocated for when S&R activities are abused. In this case, it wouldn't have been her "fault".

Good question, what does trigger SAR? At one extreme, there was the lady who called and said her son was overdue - he had told her he would return at 5PM. It was then 5:20, the weather was good, etc..."Uh, lady, let's wait a few minutes, shall we? Call me back in about half an hour, please"...Ten minutes later he walked in the door.

On the other end, a call reporting injury, someone hearing cries of distress, etc., will usually spark the operation. On occasion, we have launched preemptively - hiking into an area threatened by a forest fire to look for any campers who might be in danger, for example.

Protocols vary, but in many circumstances the search will not begin until the following morning, absent any reason to the contrary. Everyone deserves at least one opportunity to commune with nature under the starry sky.

If the sky was not starry, we usually went out sooner, sometimes right into the teeth of an advancing storm. It's a judgment call, but it is better to start too soon, rather than too late. You don't like to say to yourself, "if only we had gone out that evening, they would be alive today."

I doubt that the lady received any bill for the efforts made on her behalf. The NPS does bill for really egregious cases, like the dolts at Grand Canyon who triggered their PLB three times in two days, once because the water was too "salty."

The problem with overzealous charging is that it tends to inhibit asking for help, and then people will die unnecessarily. As a practical matter, their pockets aren't that deep or collection isn't possible because they skipped, etc. Many times it is just your tax dollars at work and I would submit that they are used pretty well.

In my experience as a volunteer searcher, the cost to the taxpayer is surprisingly low. The foot troops were unpaid; when we called for a helicopter, it was an Air Force bird whose use was charged to training (most of the pilots loved our missions; they had flown in Nam and our jobs were much more interesting than their regular duties).

The same was true for me. Once' plodding through the analysis of pottery on the floor of a twelfth century pueblo, we were called to help an injured hiked. Three hours later, after engaging in a life saving operation, I resumed my duties, feeling much better. My SAR pager saved me from many a dull pointless meeting. I typically took annual leave while absent on SAR work, although I did take full advantage of an obscure regulation that allowed forty hours of administrative leave for such cases. I arranged my schedule so that I did not work Mondays since that often was a SAR day. Again, tax dollars well spent, IMHO.

My experiences were primarily as a member of the Southern Arizona Rescue Association, quite a few years ago. Current practices in other jurisdictions may well vary.

the trigger question is a good one.there is a good book about two cases of being lost in canoe country,this was a few years ago.the guy in Quetico Park in Canada was searching for the portage to the next lake when he fell and was knocked out and wandered dazed until he was lost.the people with him got to a ranger station after a no stop major effort paddle in a day or so.in Canada the search is done by the OPP,provincial police,they contact the family and others with a list of questions--did he do this before--family problem--so on.the result depends on how intense the search is.in this case they flew a chopper from one end of Lake Superior to the other to help in the search.
on the American side a hiker got lost on some back trails with the winter coming on.when he did not get back on time the family called the sheriff who drove out to the trail head and found the car and no one around.a local SAR team of volunteers got their gear together and went looking.the air search was done by a deputy showing up at the air field in Ely MN and just finding a guy with a plane who would take him up..end of the story was that he was given up for dead because of the cold and snow storm but found by dogs in a tree stump where he took shelter and survived.the guy in Canada did have a compass but not much else and after three days pushed thru the woods and bogs to a lake where he flagged down a passing canoe.

She was unprepared and temps were below freezing... these two conditions alone are probably the reason for most people dying of hypothermia under similar conditions. If it was very cold, she would have been wearing warm clothing; most of the hypothermia deaths take place when air temp is between 32 and 50F, due to lack of forethought. And a 4.5 hour search was probably just a good stretch of the legs for the searchers.

"When it comes to short trips, I don't think it is a lack of gear that necessarily puts people at risk but a lack of awareness."

The people with the latter are usually the people with the former. Overall awareness of current and coming conditions, what could happen, and the mental conditioning to always take some gear along indicates a degree of common sense that most people just don't seem to have.

"Launching a full scale SAR search just because a hiker hadn't returned by dusk seems like a huge over reaction especially as the hiker has only been out on the hill for only 6 to 8 hours before calling in the Cavalry."

Thirty searchers tonight, live find. A hundred searchers tomorrow after a low-temp night, be sure to bring a body bag along. Which costs the most? Which has the worst repercussions for the park?

The rangers don't know who is out there; three guys with breaker bars and machetes can do a tremendous amount of damage just for "fun", and other steal the cactus for resale.

Sue

my favorite kind of book. i'd love to read that canoedogs. do you remember what it's called?

Not at Chiricahua, except possibly for a few scraggly prickly pear. The pretty cacti are further west and lower in elevation - Saguaro NP and Organ Pipe Cactus NM. Chir is actually up in the pines.

But yes, cactus rustling is a problem. There is a lively black market.

how do you rustle cactus?? - verrry carefully!

I may have to add this to my classes -- Make a pack of the basic ten items -- for every hike. Make it and stash it in your car. Cost $25. Usefulness on an overnight? Priceless.

$5 goodwill back pack
$5 good will waterbottle

free:( around the house)

jacket, first aid kit, snacks, etc and so on