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#215073 - 01/16/11 09:33 PM Re: Need a portable water filter that removes flouride [Re: hikermor]
BigCityHillbilly Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/19/07
Posts: 63
Originally Posted By: hikermor
Originally Posted By: BigCityHillbilly


How was the human race able to survive all these centuries without having extra fluoride being added to the drinking water ?

The human race was doing just fine without extra fluoride in the drinking water, until some genius came along and drew up a bunch of spurious "reasons" for doing it.


One of the things you notice in prehistoric skeletons is the presence of very poor dental health - there are variations and exceptions, depending on time and place, but very often by the time you hit forty, your teeth were likely to be toast.


re: having bad teeth and/or losing your teeth. Was this problem largely the result of not ingesting enough fluoride into the body ? A more likely scenario is that people in prehistoric times were so busy trying to survive that they simply didn't have enough time for engaging in tooth-preservation activities.


Edited by BigCityHillbilly (01/16/11 09:35 PM)

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#215074 - 01/16/11 09:36 PM Re: Need a portable water filter that removes flouride [Re: BigCityHillbilly]
Famdoc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 155
Loc: PA
Fluoride began to be added when it was observed that that kids living in communities with higher amounts of fluoride occurring in the drinking water had far fewer cavities than kids in communities with lower concentrations of fluoride.

Dentists and public health officials began to educate politicians and citizenry about this, and advocate for adding fluoride to the drinking water.

Imagine, dentists trying to accomplish something whose result would cut into their income: fewer teeth to drill and fill, or pull.

They succeeded in many areas, with a huge drop in the incidence of dental caries resulting, in those areas where fluoride has been added to the public drinking water.

At those concentrations, there is no reputable evidence that it causes cancer or any other undesirable outcomes, with the exception of rare dental fluorosis, which, again, is due to inadvertently getting too much fluoride.

The reason to put it in the drinking water is to get the fluoride incorporated into the baby teeth, but more importantly, into the permanent teeth, while they are developing. Applying fluoride to the outside of the teeth at the dentist's office, or with tooth-paste, seems to be less effective than if the fluoride is distributed through-out the tooth. Both processes seem better than either by itself, however.

As has been mentioned, a quick definition of a poison is "too much."

Too much of any good and necessary thing will shorten your life. Water is just one. Breathing 100% oxygen, which is absolutely required at the 21% concentration in our atmosphere, does bad things eventually to your eyes for example. 100% O2 for too long is too much of an otherwise good and necessary thing.
Ditto for fluoride. A very little is great; too much ranges from bad to very bad, again, depending on how much.

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#215075 - 01/16/11 09:39 PM Re: Need a portable water filter that removes flouride [Re: BigCityHillbilly]
BigCityHillbilly Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/19/07
Posts: 63

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#215076 - 01/16/11 09:41 PM Re: Need a portable water filter that removes flouride [Re: BigCityHillbilly]
BigCityHillbilly Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/19/07
Posts: 63
I want water !

Give me water.

I don't want any toxic crap in my water !

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#215079 - 01/16/11 09:56 PM Re: Need a portable water filter that removes flouride [Re: BigCityHillbilly]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078

Quote:
I don't want any toxic crap in my water !


The British National Health System Homeopathic Accident and Emergency Hospital Departments couldn't possibly function with US style water Fluoridation. wink

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#215080 - 01/16/11 09:57 PM Re: Need a portable water filter that removes flouride [Re: BigCityHillbilly]
BigCityHillbilly Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/19/07
Posts: 63
I'm having a difficult time understanding why people would want to drink water that's been poisoned with toxic chemicals.

There is also plenty of documented "science" - now long-since debunked - which claims that pre-frontal lobotomies are harmless and that they were mostly beneficial to their victims.

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#215082 - 01/16/11 10:05 PM Re: Need a portable water filter that removes flouride [Re: BigCityHillbilly]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:
I'm having a difficult time understanding why people would want to drink water that's been poisoned with toxic chemicals.


The real issue is that many just don't get a choice of whether they do or do not get poisoned/medicated with Fluoride as Fluoride is available in toothpaste if required (and mostly spat out rather than be absorbed into bone and tissue) and reducing the consumption of tooth rotting food and drink, which is the real issue for Dental caries prevention.



Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (01/16/11 10:05 PM)

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#215087 - 01/16/11 10:40 PM Re: Need a portable water filter that removes flouride [Re: BigCityHillbilly]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California

I saw that press release when it first came out, too. Unfortunately, that particular paper has since been withdrawn.

But there are multiple citations here regarding flouride and the brain. Anyone who wants to do some reading, knock yourself out. At least a half dozen of the human research papers can be accessed online, without visiting your friendly neighborhood university school library.

Here is the 2006 report by a committee of the National Research Council, an arm of the prestigious National Academy of Sciences, on flouride in drinking water. Regarding neurotoxic effects, the committee stated:

Quote:
"A few epidemiologic studies of Chinese populations have reported IQ deficits in children exposed to fluoride at 2.5 to 4 mg/L in drinking water. Although the studies lacked sufficient detail for the committee to fully assess their quality and relevance to U.S. populations, the consistency of the results appears significant enough to warrant additional research on the effects of fluoride on intelligence."


Do these papers "prove" anything about flouride's effect on the brain? Well, it's still too early to say, but even the NRC is saying that it looks like there might be something to it, so we should investigate. There is still much, much more research to be done on flouride, even though we've been adding it to our water supply for 50-60 years. I get the impression that there has been far more research into BPA's effects than flouride so far, so there's a lot that we still don't understand. However, although the jury is still out on BPA, we have steadily seen more and more restrictions on BPA as more science comes out against it. In fact, the Dept of Health and Human Services just came out and recommended lowering the level of flouride in drinking water from a range of 0.7 to 1.2 ppm to just a straight 0.7 ppm--the first change to the recommendation since the 60's, I believe. However, it's still up to the EPA to make the final decision on whether to lower the current 4 ppm maximum limit.

I don't know about the Commie angle, but the potential health effects of flouride are far from tin foil hat territory.

Oh, another interesting (and disturbing) brain angle with flouride is that it can release large amounts of aluminum, like when boiling flouridated water in aluminum cookware. There was one study that demonstrated that 1 ppm of flouride could release 200 ppm of aluminum (sorry, I forget the citation). Alzheimer's is becoming more common (faster than the population is aging) and aluminum exposure has been linked to it, so it makes you wonder...

Unfortunately, from what I have read in the past, most government agencies and panels only talk about two particular health problems--dental and skeletal flourosis. They totally ignore even mentioning other potential problems that scientists have found.

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#215088 - 01/16/11 10:41 PM Re: Need a portable water filter that removes flouride [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Ann Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 42
Loc: Western Washington
Sticking with the OP question, according to this site:

Quote:
Fluoride is more difficult to remove than most water contaminants. For practical purposes, there are three choices for removing fluoride from drinking water: distillation, reverse osmosis, and filtration through a special fluoride/arsenic reduction medium called activated alumina. Bone char carbon is used in some localities.


If it is important for you to filer out fluoride on the go, it sounds to me like an HTI filter such as the Lifepack is the closest you'll get. It is a forward osmosis system, which is said to provide filtration comparable to reverse osmosis.

One of the downsides is that you don't end up with water but rather a sports drink solution. If you really want to be in control of the ingredients used you can apparently make your own salt/sugar solution, as stated here:

Quote:
HTI’s sports drink powders and syrups have been formulated to maximize filtration capabilities, enhance oral hydration and drink preservation. However, other kinds of combinations containing sugars/salts will function as an osmotic agent (Ex: Gatorade, Powerade, maple syrup, etc.)


A fun little fact about this system is that it will filter out close to 90% of urine salts, and has been credited with saving lives in this manner. The story is mentioned in this article.

No affiliation with HTI or any of the linked websites. I've not even tried said product and this information is gleaned from the Internet only, so take it with a few grains of salt. smile


Edited by Ann (01/16/11 10:42 PM)

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#215090 - 01/16/11 10:54 PM Re: Need a portable water filter that removes flouride [Re: Famdoc]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Famdoc
The reason to put it in the drinking water is to get the fluoride incorporated into the baby teeth, but more importantly, into the permanent teeth, while they are developing. Applying fluoride to the outside of the teeth at the dentist's office, or with tooth-paste, seems to be less effective than if the fluoride is distributed through-out the tooth.

I believe that this is outdated thinking about the action of flouride on dental health.

In the CDC's 2001 Recommendations for Using Fluoride to Prevent and Control Dental Caries in the United States report, it states that:

Quote:
"The prevalence of dental caries in a population is not inversely related to the concentration of fluoride in enamel, and a higher concentration of enamel fluoride is not necessarily more efficacious in preventing dental caries... The laboratory and epidemiologic research that has led to the better understanding of how fluoride prevents dental caries indicates that fluoride's predominant effect is posteruptive and topical and that the effect depends on fluoride being in the right amount in the right place at the right time. Fluoride works primarily after teeth have erupted, especially when small amounts are maintained constantly in the mouth, specifically in dental plaque and saliva. Thus, adults also benefit from fluoride, rather than only children, as was previously assumed."


If flouride's benefit is primarily from topical exposure (like toothpaste, flouride rinses, gels/foams at the dentist's office, etc.), then the argument goes that we shouldn't be forced to swallow it and be exposed to the risks without any alternative.

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