Oh, Man. I just saw Art's "Poison in the Night" link.

big m..garly's post about a CO alarm was well taken,i would never leave something like that running while i was sleeping,that's what the winter gear is for.being a stove collector i have seen several tests done of different camp stoves run in tents for heating and cooking and am well aware of the danger.i was thinking of using a kerosene burning stove.kero is used for indoor heating and the stoves were used for cooking all over Europe before town gas.many of my fellow "stovies" still cook indoors on their old Primus stoves as part of the hobby with no ill effects.having said that your post is well taken and i would like to find or borrow a good CO testing meter to see just what i was dealing with in what was a "cold nite,lets try this out" sort of thing.just as an aside a buddy who worked in Canada tells me story's of guys who set fire to the spare tire in order to make it thru the nite after ditching the car on the way back from town...and--the Coleman 502 with the heat drum i used ice fishing,that was just inside a wood crate i sat on behind a windbreak.

Stove/fire/ outside, boil water, hot water bottle inside

Heck, you could even carry a few bricks/tiles and heat those instead of water, outside of course.

Carbon monoxide poisoning from Sterno. [Can Med Assoc J. 1978] - PubMed Result
You've replicated this exact scenario.
All that is required is that you supply a little too much fuel, just a slight twist of the knob, and you're making so much CO, two breaths and goodbye

The space is just too small for open flame like that

In addition to the major concerns about CO there is also the minor combustion product condensation issue.

Once upon a time I set a radiant propane heater to running in the rear uninsulated camping box of my unimog while I was hanging out by the fire talking with the guys.

While the box was warmer than it would have been, there was an enormous amount of condensation from the combustion water vapor running down the walls of the box. The heater was shutoff for the night and there was plenty of ventilation due to seal leakage for sleeping. But the humidity in the box was really high - not the best for comfort.

In this case you may wind up with the headliner of the car being softened and coming down from the ceiling over time. Or you'll just get a huge case of inboard rust in the interior.

A minor consideration compared to being dead. But yet another reason this isn't such a good idea.

I liked the "what if" scenario and I realize the real dangers of Carbon Monoxide poisoning in a confined space, but what if you used a larger version of the alcohol stove? You'd have to make it real stable to keep from spilling/sloshing out. Would you still have the problem with CO poisoning if your burning denatured alcohol?

Yes. Any incomplete combustion will produce loads of CO.

Canoedogs - I like your setup. But then again, I'm a stove fanatic, and fully aware of the CO poisoning in poor ventilated setups. It is good advice to maintain a good distance between the flame and the cool cocking pot - cooling the flame by putting a can of snow inside it is an excellent way to produce lots of CO. There are a lot of camping stoves that could benefit from raising the pot a centimeter or two.


I am guessing the reason for the "box heater" setup is to have some sort of physical boundary between the upholstery of the car and the naked flame - or is there any other reasons for it? A naked flame would heat the car just as well or better, but could be considered somewhat stressful in that setup.


Any tips for the most important aspects of the design or use of box heaters? Although I'm an old stove fanatic, box heaters are new territory for me.

I actually bought one of these a few years back:

http://www.zodi.com/Consumer/zodihotvent.html

It's a great concept, and worked moderately well. The propane cylinder seemed to freeze up a bit or something in really cold weather, which appeared to reduce its output. I also tried running it off a big 20 lb tank, which IIRC worked better. I'll have to dig it out and fiddle with it a bit more.

In my quest to heat vehicles/tents/etc, it is the only thing I found that I felt comfortable with, because of its outdoor combustion and venting.

David

The Zodi is clever, but having to rely on 12v for the fan is likely to be a problem quickly.

Harmless..the box,really a can,was made for the Coleman 503 so it could be used as a heater.it has holes around the top and i assume the Coleman company thought this out and made it so it worked efficiently.




keeping the open flame from a roaring stove away from gear in a ice fishing shack and supplying a heat sink,plus the cans flat top gets hot enough to cook on makes this a neat but obsolete gizmo.
i have no idea why other more modern stoves don't have something like this,maybe there were too many of those CO problems--



this heater which is made to go onto a camp stove is an example of a proper heater.the stove runs on kerosene and all the springs and screens inside the glass case promote a clean burn.made by the Purple Stove Company in Japan for home and camp use..they use kero burners widely in Japan as they don't need central heating and some burners have a chime that sounds every three hours or so as a reminder to open windows and let any fumes out----for me this is more of collectors item and not something i would keep outside in my cars trunk.

I have never heard of this box heater before.

It appears from Canoedog's photo that it is just a hollow unit (think coffee can) with a holes, slots in the base to anchor it and a bail handle. The 'can' absorbs heat from the open flame and radiates it outward, or the top can be used for cooking.

Is this a reasonable description?

Sue

p.s. I am looking at 'box heater' at eBay. What does 'catalytic' mean in this sense? What does it do?