I don't believe the integral ring even does that - If I had a ringless belt, I would simply affix a locking biner (or more, if the situation called for it) wherever I wanted it (a lot of times, I would want to be tied off at my back, rather than in front) and it would actually be better than the ring - larger target for clipping in and usable for other purposes. I think it is mostly a marketing gimmick.

Not really a big issue, however, either way.

While I would agree that the Rigger’s Belt is mostly a marketing concept (there are fake one’s out there, so be careful if decide to use the belt as device), I would almost always want to be attached in the front. By being attached in the front, you can assist or even accomplish self-rescue. Rear attachments basically make you a passive by-stander in your own survival. The only two times I have seen/used rear attachment points is with a tag line for confined space and for the door/hoist operator for helicopter operations.

Pete

I would go for rope that is a bit thicker, partially because of abrasion concerns but also because in assembling a minimal kit like we are discussing, I want something that is UIAA rated for lead climbing, whatever the diameter might be - currently something around 9mm. You almost are likely to face a situation where climbing up is necessary, as well as rappelling, and you want to be ready for that. I would throw in a couple of slings, and perhaps a small chock or two - it would depend a bit upon the precise situation. As has been pointed out previously, a proper climbing harness is so light these days that it makes sense to include one as well.

I strongly feel that anyone who learns to rappel should also be briefed in at least the rudiments of climbing and belaying, although for someone who cannot climb for whatever reason, an instruction course can be arranged. I have this opinion because I have rescued several "rappelers" who were clearly clueless and in trouble when the slightest problem developed. It's really all about learning how to use rope safely when traveling through technical terrain.

Ideally, anyone going down a rope will have the training and ability to ascend the rope if necessary. This can be done only with prussic slings, along with the appropriate training. More elaborate gear makes ascending much easier, although we are taking about minimal situations here. This is one situation where I might consider paracord, whichis generally best used for and tent lines IMO. I believe there is a case where a rappeler fashioned prussic slings from his shoelaces, and saved the day.

I think he is talking about the thickness of the prussik. I would rather go for 5 or 6 mm prussiks. Seven is a bit thick and doesn't bight the main line well.

9mm is a bit thin for a single lead rope. 9.1mm's are for more experiansed users and are too thin to use on belay devices as the GriGri (the GriGri 2 is suppose to hit the market with a larger rope range this year). I would rather go for 10mm, which usually gives a beter weight and control ratio and is still smooth in use.

With the added gear of the last couple of posts I am quickly getting to a full rack of gear. From the OP my guess is that the rappel was not intended. That leads me to "I over estimated my abilities and got myself stuck on this ledge and there is a thunderstorm coming". That would probably require a full rack and multiple rappels. Bad place to get yourself into.

The other that I can think of is my hotel is on fire and I cannot get out, I am on the 5th floor. (saw this video on TV, "When vacations attack"). This would be 70 feet of 4-5mm line, pre-loaded on a descent device specifically made for it, swiss seat and a locking biner. Something like this

http://www.rescuetech1.com/rescuetechegressplus-frhook.aspx

You could certainly put a kit together based on a Munter hitch to a biner as well. Swiss seats work fine for the intended purpose. While I would love to have my harness, I will personally take the risk of the swiss seat, or even my instructor belt if that is all I had.

Regards,
Bill

Yes I did graduate from Jacque's classes, I graduated from Eastern United States technical Rescue School and the Industrial Rescue school. Beyond Jacques classes I have taken improvised rope rescue, Advanced Improvised rope rescue, along with other wilderness courses.

@Hikemore,

You make some great points, for quickness and light weight I don't cary chocks, but that is my prefeance.

As memory serves me a lead rope is a dynamic rope, the reason I prefer keeping prusick cord that is smaller is that it is lighter and static line (aka low stretch). yes you can rappel on dynamic rope, but the stretch cna add a little "fun factor," to the rappel.


I think that you are totaly on the spot about everyone who rappels knowing belaying techniques. The reason I did not say that they needed to know how to climb or need to be physicaly able to climb was that sometimes you can hike up a mountain and end up with the only way down being rappeling.


@everyone,

this is a GREAT subject, and one that is very dear to my heart.

It's more of a specialty equipment. Knowing how to use those hooks is a totally diffrent thing than other kinds of rappeling. If you do buy a 'escape' system, get one with a belay device which locks, so you can use both hands to get out.

But i doubt anyone would carry one of these, unless they are rescue workers.

Tyber,

You said "Believe it or not, with the materials listed above you can accomplish a true emergency rappel. Safety will be at a minimal but you can do it."

With a swiss seat, locking biners and rated rope, you can be just as safe as the finest harness and rack of equipment. There are lots of reasons to use the modern equipment, but for most rappels saftey is not improved. As far as I know, climbing accidents due to equipment have increased with the new equipment (not because of it). If the equipment will handle the required loads, stay in place and not apply incorrect loads on the body (all possible with the gear we used 40+ years ago) it CAN be done saftely.

Bill,

That leads me to "I over estimated my abilities and got myself stuck on this ledge and there is a thunderstorm coming". That would probably require a full rack and multiple rappels. Bad place to get yourself into.

Why do you need a full rack? With proper technique this can be done with a proper rope and a good anchor. No rack is likely to be necessary. I have rescued a number of people who only required 20 - 30 feet of drop to get to a safe position. Only if the ledge is on the East Face of Long's Peak would the rest be of great comfort ;-).

Respectfully,

Jerry

Attaching from the rear is not a good idea. While doing a training with a SWAT TEAM we discussed Ausie styled rappels. IN the beginning the TEAM was all about Aussie styled rappels. After we discussed things like Rappel escapes, and Figure 8 devices going "Girth hitch" or capturing the rope, or just getting stuck. By the end the team was a little more open to a new style that I learned from FIRES.

Also speaking from direct experience of having to hang in an industrial full body harness for about 30 min while being the rescued for a Mock rescue. After about 10 min of hanging my legs went numb, after 15 min of hanging I had to ascend into my secondary harness that I was wearing under the first harness.


IF YOU ARE DOING AN EMERGENCY RAPPEL DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUSMSTANCESS ATTACH YOURSELF OR OTHERS TO THE ROPE VIA THERE BACK. AGAIN DO NOT EVER ATTACH YOURSELF OR OTHERS BACK TO THE ROPE.