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#214314 - 01/05/11 01:41 AM Re: It even happens to the best... [Re: Eugene]
Ann Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 42
Loc: Western Washington
Long time lurker here who registered to respond to this thread.

One thing to note is that sometimes a 911 call might go through even though your phone shows no reception. My provider is T-Mobile, and they used to share cell towers with another major provider (not remembering which) and now, even though they no longer share towers, it appears they have an agreement concerning emergency calls. When all reception is lost the phone will say "emergency calls only". Customer service confirmed that it means you will still be able to dial 911 even though other calls won't go through.

Since I have an older phone mine doesn't display their handy little message, so at this point I just have to take their word that if I need help my phone is going to work. But I have seen it on the phones of those I share my plan with, so I know it does occur.

I believe this information is important because in a survival situation you'd want to try your phone anyway, even if it shows no reception, and that little bit of knowledge could be the thing that saves you. Of course from what I understand it wouldn't work if you're out of range of all cell towers, but at least it's something to try.

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#214320 - 01/05/11 03:27 AM Re: It even happens to the best... [Re: Susan]
Dagny Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1918
Loc: Washington, DC

Welcome aboard, Ann!

Your post reminds me of the James Kim family tragedy of 2006 -- when their car got stuck on a remote road in the southern Oregon mountains. James did not survive.

I recall reading that even if a phone is simply on it will "ping" whatever cell towers are around and that can help pinpoint your location.

Something like that, others may know more on that aspect.

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#214324 - 01/05/11 03:34 AM Re: It even happens to the best... [Re: Susan]
comms Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
Welcome Ann and thanks for your input. Hope you provide many more.
_________________________
Don't just survive. Thrive.

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#214334 - 01/05/11 09:46 AM Re: It even happens to the best... [Re: Ann]
EMPnotImplyNuclear Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 382
Originally Posted By: Ann
One thing to note is that sometimes a 911 call might go through even though your phone shows no reception...

Thats a good point, and we can thank the FCC/Congress for it

Originally Posted By: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9-1-1#Inactive_telephones

Inactive telephones

In the U.S., FCC rules require every telephone that can access the network to be able to dial 9-1-1, regardless of any reason that normal service may have been disconnected (including non-payment) (This only applies to states with a Do Not Disconnect policy in place. Those states must provide a "soft" dial tone service, details can be found at http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Common_Carrier/Reports/FCC-State_Link/IAD/pntris99.pdf) On wired (land line) phones, this usually is accomplished by a "soft" dial tone, which sounds normal but will allow only emergency calls. Often, an unused and unpublished phone number will be issued to the line so that it will work properly. With regard to mobile phones, the rules require carriers to connect 9-1-1 calls from any mobile phone, regardless of whether that phone is currently active. The same rules for inactive telephones apply in Canada.

When a cellular phone is deactivated, the phone number is often recycled to a new user, or to a new phone for the same user. The deactivated cell phone will still complete a 911 call (if it has battery power) but the 911 operator will see a specialized number indicating the cell phone has been deactivated. It is usually represented with an area code of (911)-xxx-xxxx. If the call is disconnected, the 911 operator will not be able to connect to the original caller. Also because the cell phone is no longer activated, the 911 operator is often unable to get Phase II information.

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#214352 - 01/05/11 02:22 PM Re: It even happens to the best... [Re: EMPnotImplyNuclear]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Very interesting. Any idea what "Phase II" information is? Hopefully "location" is phase I....
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#214355 - 01/05/11 02:51 PM Re: It even happens to the best... [Re: Susan]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3241
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Just a reminder:

In fringe areas, text messages will often get out even if you can't get a reliable signal for a voice call.

Apparently, cell phones keep trying to send a text until they succeed. They only need a tiny fraction of the bandwidth of a voice call, and only need a signal for a few moments.

I have seen a number of news reports where people were able initiate rescue by texting.


Edited by dougwalkabout (01/05/11 02:53 PM)

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#214369 - 01/05/11 05:13 PM Re: It even happens to the best... [Re: Susan]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2997
The 911 only or emergency only message doesn't mean you have no reception, it means you have recpetion but no service with your provider or no roaming agreement with whomever's tower your on. If you have no reception then you can't make any calls.

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#214377 - 01/05/11 07:22 PM Re: It even happens to the best... [Re: Susan]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
I never heard...

Did the Kims call 911 and were just out of range, or were they just trying to call people they knew?

Welcome, Ann! This is a really lopsided board, so we need more women! But the guys are nice and very knowledgeable.

Sue

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#214384 - 01/05/11 09:25 PM Re: It even happens to the best... [Re: Susan]
Dagny Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1918
Loc: Washington, DC
There are more details at the link below. Two engineers for Edge Wireless had the idea to search cell records for the Kim's phone and contacted authorities with their plan. It took more educated sleuthing after finding the ping (from a text message that had been sent to one of the Kims' phones) and that pointed searchers to the road where the Kim's car had gotten stuck in snow.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/12/06/national/main2232874.shtml


Searchers rescued Kati Kim, 30, and her daughters Penelope, 4, and Sabine, 7 months, along a remote forest road Monday afternoon.[color:#000066] The key to finding them, police said, was a "ping" from one of the family's cell phones that helped narrow down their location. Though cell phone signals are rare in the area, reports CBS News correspondent Blackstone, the family's phone connected briefly to a distant tower as it received a text message. That gave searchers a place to look.[/color]


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#214387 - 01/06/11 12:37 AM Re: It even happens to the best... [Re: Susan]
ki4buc Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/10/03
Posts: 710
Loc: Augusta, GA
There are other threads where I've posted more detailed stuff on cell phones.

Eugene and EMPNotImplyNuclear are both correct that this is mandated by the government (not like you couldn't find that out yourself... figured I'd throw my knowledge 2 cents).

Susan, you can get "pings" but not be able to complete a voice call. This is why SMS messages can get through. At a cell site there is a control channel, and a number of voice channels. Your phone is constantly trying to listen to the control channel, and sends information to the tower on a periodic basis. If you send/receive an SMS message this is the channel that does that. Your phone WANTS to be connected to this channel ( ET phone home! with a ping! ).

Side note: You'll notice I said "always on". It is segmented into "buckets", and when you send a text message, it takes up a bucket(s). Those buckets cost you from $0.10 to $0.25. Whether you sent the message or not, the "bucket" is always there. smile

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