There's something I don't get...

Triathlete Debbie Collins is a triathlete! With a sprained ankle (or even a broke leg) she could have hopped out of there in 6 days. It's not like her hand was trapped under a boulder!

If I knew I didn't tell anyone where I was going I would low-crawl out rather than hope someone notice I was gone.

Good info, ki. Thanks for the welcome everyone.



This is pure speculation, but I wonder if she might have stayed put not necessarily because she felt she couldn't get out, but that, as an athlete, she did not want to injure herself further by forcing it if she didn't have to. After all, she had 6 layers of clothing and unlimited water, and knowing the trails as well as she did she may have assumed that someone would pass by sooner or later and that she'd be fine until then.

It appears to me that if she had realized how difficult it would be to find her and understood how dangerous a position she was in then she would have done everything possible to get out of there regardless of its effect on her injury.

Oh really! Can you recount any examples? How far have you hopped on a sprained ankle, much less a broken leg? A sprained ankle is essentially identical to a fracture in terms of field first aid, and they generally are quite painful. Sometimes you can move a bit if the ankle is wrapped tightly, but it really helps to have a crutch or a companion to lean on if you are going to move any distance (like 100 yards or so).

Evidently she was in a location where she had water. Moving away from water, she could easily have gotten into a much more serious situation, aggravating her injury, becoming immobilized, and out of reach of water. I think she followed a pretty decent strategy.

The occasions on which I have had to deal with a gimpy leg have not been fun at all. I have helped pull a lot of people out of the woods with sprained ankles/broken legs and the like; the best way to do this is with a stretcher, or in some cases, with the victim on a horse. Well actually, nothing beats a helicopter.

I was on a climbing trip in Alaska and my partner fell and hit his foot against a rock causing an ankle injury. He had significant pain and noticeable swelling. Several days later after we finished the climb he was diagnosed with a distal fibula fracture, aka broken ankle.

I once fell 500+ vertical feet skiing down a 38 degree couloir and partially avulsed my right quad tendon among other injuries. I wrapped my leg with a coban and skied for several more days.

Mountaineering and Exploration literature is filled with many examples of people experiencing serious injuries, some life threatening, and walking, limping and crawling back alive.
I've personally witnessed people basically duct tape themselves together and walk out with a full load of gear to get home.

Thank you - you gave a very convincing answer to my question.

Ditto. If it was a severe ligament strain -- it's crippling. I've had a few wicked ones that had me on crutches and in pain for months. Very inconvenient when it's your clutch foot, let alone miles from a trailhead. Makes me wince to think about it.

I'm trying to recall those injuries and picture myself hobbling/crawling that last couple or few miles of some of our Shenandoah hikes. Hard to imagine.

And so is being in the woods for that many days. I need to get serious about a PLB, though I never go into the woods alone.

I was moving from San Jose, CA to Las Vegas, NV. The van was packed, the dog was in the front seat, the cat was in her carrier. I went back upstairs to grab my pillow and the cat's water bowl, and missed the last step coming down. Badly, badly sprained ankle. I had to hold onto a chair to get out to the van. Couldn't stay, the new roomie was moving in that afternoon.

500+ miles to go. Ford van with a stiff clutch. Ace bandage was packed somewhere. I got onto the freeway and drove until I was forced to stop for gas and a hamburger. I had to press the clutch just right to be able to get it down, and couldn't hold it down for long. I couldn't keep putting it down to go through the line at the McD's drive-thru, so I hobbled in... and couldn't get over the speed bump. A SPEED BUMP! On otherwise smooth pavement. Finally, another car came through and I asked the driver if I could lean on his car.

So, I'm with Hikermor on this one. Hopping on rough terrain is just begging for more trouble.

"I once fell 500+ vertical feet skiing down a 38 degree couloir and partially avulsed my right quad tendon among other injuries. I wrapped my leg with a coban and skied for several more days."

Sorry, but anyone who hurts himself and keeps skiing for several more days isn't hurt very badly. But a twinge at the wrong time could have changed all that, couldn't it? Then what?

My opinion on Debbie Collins was that she didn't think it necessary to take a cell phone, a whistle or a lighter, because she was sure nothing would happen. It hadn't up till then, right?

Sue

"...Badly, badly sprained ankle..." Yes that must have hurt and I bet my climbing partner with the fractured ankle (confirmed by x-ray in Anchorage) was feeling some pain too but we climbed for 11 more days.

People have different experiences with pain and injury and what they can do. When I injured my leg skiing it was a real musco-skeletal injury and very painful. Painful enough that getting up from sitting was excruciating so I did not sit down much. I also did not have full range of motion due to pain. I checked with an orthopedic surgeon friend to see if there was a chance for permanent injury and kept skiing since the trip was part of an advanced avalanche course that would be difficult to for me repeat later.

My outdoor background is mostly from the mountaineering school that considers "bivouac" a French word for "mistake" and self-reliance not optional but necessary. As I said before, there are just too many examples of athletes, climbers and explorers performing at better than just sitting and waiting for help levels while injured and in pain to accept that sitting and waiting is always the best option.

I bet Tyler Hamilton was a bit uncomfortable when he finished 4th at the 2003 Tour de France with a broken collar bone and other injuries from a serious crash. Nah, on second thought he must have been fine since he only needed to have a few teeth replaced from the grinding due to pain.

When Doug Scott Fell on the Ogre and smashed both of his knees he didn't whine about it, he just crawled out. But he probably didn't really hurt himself and was just looking for sympathy.

Sir Douglas Mawson tied the skin from the soles of his frozen feet back on and kept walking alone in Antarctica to get to help. He was probably not in much pain though since frozen feet don't hurt until they thaw anyway.

When one of my friends crashed badly on her last lap of a 24 hr mountain bike race in Italy, smashing her helmet, face, and right leg in the process, she just taped her foot to the bike pedal and finished the race. Then she went to the hospital as a formality since she probably wasn't in pain at the time even though her leg required surgery to repair after she got back to the US.

When a bear mauling victim in Alaska, whom I learned of through photos while taking a WEMT class, ran about a quarter mile back to the trail head he was probably ok. Even thought according to surgeons his leg should not have even been able to support body weight due to the bone and muscle damage.

The Wyoming gas pipeline inspector who arrived in the OR where I work had enough composure to shut of safety valves and then drive herself several miles to get cell phone reception with something like 80% full thickness burns was probably not in much pain. We've all learned that full thickness burns hurt less than partial thickness burns because of the nerves being destroyed.

My point is that people can keep going while tired, injured and in pain if they want to and try. I've seen too many examples on climbing trips, in adventure races and working in an operating room of injured people who did more to help themselves and others than just sit down and wait to have much sympathy for those that do when self rescue is a good option.


Sorry for the rant but this topic is one that gets me worked up a bit.

I also wanted to repeat my first post with links to the story of Danelle Ballengee, arguably one of the worlds most accomplished endurance athletes, who at least tried to crawl for help with a fractured pelvis after falling over a cliff on a training run. She crawled for several hours with a potential life threatening injury. If she had only injured her ankle I bet she would have finished her run and gone home.

The simple fact of the matter is the lady is alive. Sure you armchair her injuries and critique what she should of, could of done but really what is the sense? You were not there and certainly not privy to all the details of what transpired so what gives you the privilege to be so judgmental and so unfairly compare her situation to others?

She is alive and will live to run another race and hike another day and quite frankly, thats all that matters. What more can you ask for in life?