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#213680 - 12/27/10 05:48 AM Re: Determining if downed power lines are live? [Re: dweste]
Richlacal Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 778
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
OK,Once Again! My Choice for this Matter,Would be to Secure the Cut End of the cable with Timbers or 4x4's or 2x4's or Plywood,but Definitely Not particleboard as,It has metal Fibers.Then Shovel Dirt onto the cable,Behind the Secured end,When I feel there is enough Dirt on said cable,I will Jump over it,& Guide Whoever is Trapped,Back to the Secured Point,& Have them Jump/Leap over to Safety,Jump back over Myself,& Secure/Tape/Rope off the Area!The Main Point is to Secure the Cut end of the Cable,to Keep It/Them, from Whipping Around!This Is Something,I,Would Choose To Do,IF...Professional Expertise,Were Not Available! Intestinal Fortitude is Required for Much Greater Purposes,Than The above! That said,Some have it,& Some Don't!

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#213681 - 12/27/10 06:31 AM Re: Determining if downed power lines are live? [Re: Richlacal]
Eric Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/09/06
Posts: 323
Loc: Iowa
This isn't about intestinal fortitude, it is simple physics and the unforgiving nature of high energy systems of any type.

The things you don't and can't know (how much moisture is in the wood/soil, how many volts is the line, are there any holes in my shoes/gloves, or when will the power come back on) are what will kill you. Even highly trained professionals die when working with high power levels.

Assuming you decide intestinal fortitude is the answer, I hope you know what voltage level the line is at before you start throwing wood and dirt around.

For a local (i.e. low voltage) distribution line you might be ok if you can find a nice dry 2x4 or 4x4 (at least 8' long) and the ground conditions are also nice and dry. I'd still give it a good toss from a fair distance away just to be sure.

For higher power lines I hope you feel up to tossing around some pretty hefty hunks of wood and moving a whole lot of dirt. In dry conditions, using nice kiln dried lumber (no preservatives or glues of any kind), you would want to be at least 15-20 feet away from where the line is "grounding out" if it is in the 115KV range. That sucker is also probably snapping and jumping like a mad thing, either from arcing or the wind that brought it down.

None of the above lumber is in my BOB, EDC or backpack. Usually not in my SUV or home either. I don't often carry a full size shovel along either, much less a backhoe. Going with what I can find/cut, dig up with what is on me, I suspect the pro's will be at it before I can accomplish anything short of killing my self and making a very bad situation even worse for those who get to watch my untimely demise.

With all of that out of the way there are a couple of scenarios where I would be willing to give it a go, but I'd be going in to it knowing full well that I would probably die trying. It would be risky, stupid, and absolutely the wrong thing to do but what can I say - parents aren't very rationale when the kids are in danger.

-Eric
_________________________
You are never beaten until you admit it. - - General George S. Patton


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#213683 - 12/27/10 06:56 AM Re: Determining if downed power lines are live? [Re: Eric]
Richlacal Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 778
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Parents aren't very Rational,when the kid's are in danger!It is EXACTLY,Intestinal Fortitude,For a Very Short amount of Time!Was There ANYTHING that I wrote that tipped you off,that I would Do this For The heck of It?I'm Not the Type of person that is going to Stand there & Do Nothing! Rational or Irrational,Something MUST be Done,when All other Recourse,has been Exhausted!Of Course I Know What Voltage is in the Line,Don't You?


Edited by Richlacal (12/27/10 07:01 AM)

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#213689 - 12/27/10 01:45 PM Re: Determining if downed power lines are live? [Re: Richlacal]
paramedicpete Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland
Quote:
Parents aren't very Rational,when the kid's are in danger!It is EXACTLY,Intestinal Fortitude,For a Very Short amount of Time!Was There ANYTHING that I wrote that tipped you off,that I would Do this For The heck of It?I'm Not the Type of person that is going to Stand there & Do Nothing! Rational or Irrational,Something MUST be Done,when All other Recourse,has been Exhausted!Of Course I Know What Voltage is in the Line,Don't You?


Sometimes the best thing to do, is nothing. Having a second victim does not help the primary victim and will only complicate the situation for rescuers who do have the knowledge and tools to reduce the risk of rescue. Even rescuers make the fatal mistake having the “intestinal fortitude” or what is more appropriately called tunnel vision or lack of situational awareness and feel they have to do something. Most of these rescuers become victims; it is common occurrence in confined space and trench collapse rescues. The first arriving individuals/units feel helpless, enter the hot zone and become secondary victims, unfortunately often with fatal results. Sometimes it takes real intestinal fortitude to do nothing, until the risk(s) can be mitigated.

Pete

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#213695 - 12/27/10 03:51 PM Re: Determining if downed power lines are live? [Re: paramedicpete]
Eric Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/09/06
Posts: 323
Loc: Iowa
If it isn't obvious from previous posts, I fully agree with paramedicpete. By my definition, Intestinal Fortitude is doing the right thing, no matter how hard it is. With power lines (or any other situation you are not prepared / trained for) that often means waiting for those who do have the right training and tools. Good intentions mean squat if you make things worse by adding to the body count.

I am also self aware enough to know that my kids are my weak point and I am not sure I would have the courage to wait despite my theoretical understanding of the dangers involved.

- Eric
_________________________
You are never beaten until you admit it. - - General George S. Patton


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#213731 - 12/28/10 08:44 AM Re: Determining if downed power lines are live? [Re: JohnN]
Johno Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 214
Loc: Scotland
First rule of First aid:- prevent yourself becoming a casualty, or words to that effect.

Having just had a friend of mine used as a path to ground after he went to climb on a crane that had wrapped itself up in an overhead line at night and seen the hole it left, you wont find me going anywhere near downed or cut lines.
_________________________
Follow the Sapper

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#213773 - 12/28/10 09:04 PM Re: Determining if downed power lines are live? [Re: JohnN]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2203
Loc: Bucks County PA
In short, NO. Not without specialized gear and training. ALL down lines are to be considered deadly until the power utility confirms otherwise. End of story.

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#213774 - 12/28/10 09:07 PM Re: Determining if downed power lines are live? [Re: JohnN]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2203
Loc: Bucks County PA
One other thing - Step Potential.

You don't even have to step ON the line - just NEAR it and your salty body becomes a better path - through your forward foot, and back through your trailing foot.

Boom.

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#213775 - 12/28/10 09:08 PM Re: Determining if downed power lines are live? [Re: JohnN]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2203
Loc: Bucks County PA

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#213776 - 12/28/10 09:26 PM Re: Determining if downed power lines are live? [Re: MartinFocazio]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
_________________________
If you're reading this, it's too late.

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