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#213353 - 12/20/10 02:02 PM Re: Terrorist Nuke? - Shelter in place, says FEMA [Re: Dagny]
paramedicpete Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland
Quote:
The 10-kiloton scenario should be comforting to those who don't live or work in or near top-tier targets and don't have family or friends who do. It should be comforting to Annapolis, Frederick and Baltimore and all of PG County, Maryland -- which is often downwind of DC. Georgetown could feel a bit more optimistic, if the wind is blowing as it usually does.


I know that some of the evacuation plans have evacuees being brought to the Frederick Fair Grounds. How they would ever get there, I have no idea, since even on a good day 270 is a massive parking lot.

And although I live two blocks from the front entrance to Ft. Detrick (where I work), rapid evacuation from the base is not too promising (only 4 exits- all onto very busy roads). The other day with the little bit of snow on the ground, they decided to have early dismissal. It took over 45 minutes to exit the base, since all feeder roads in the area were clogged with traffic. I just stayed until just before normal closing time and had few issues. But God help us if there ever needed to be an evaluation to due to an emergency on base.

Pete

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#213356 - 12/20/10 02:41 PM Re: Terrorist Nuke? - Shelter in place, says FEMA [Re: philip]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
I can't speak to the reality of any given evacuation route or scenario, but in general if the plan is mass evacuation, unless you plan on joining the mass, don't go near the route. The plan would be to block access, and to actively remove non-evacuees who are getting in the way. Meaning, if the plan is for evacuation by bus, private cars and trucks would be blocked from access - or shuffled to a parking area, where buses pick them up, and move folks to the evacuation site. Best planning option I know of, to get to the evacuation site, you would probably first go to a rally site, such as a nearby church or school, get documented, and get on a bus. That way the site planners have an idea how many evacuees are in their pipeline, headed for the site. I'm not familiar with the Frederick Fair Grounds, but if there's a freeway near it, I would expect all lanes to be commandeered for movement of evacuees towards the evacuation site, much like highways headed away from hurricane tracks before a landfall.

Ask around, your local or regional EM may have a published plan, if DC area plans aren't publicized owing to fears over targetting of evacuees by terrorists.

That's generalized planning, real world events can muck it all up of course - too few evacuators, too many evacuees, bad geography, not enough enforcement of the evacuation plan, not enough buses, too much or too bad weather. But the goal is not to create a death march to reach the evacuation site, which should offer food, shelter and medical help to those who need it.

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#213363 - 12/20/10 06:16 PM Re: Terrorist Nuke? - Shelter in place, says FEMA [Re: philip]
philip Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 639
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
> but in general if the plan is mass evacuation, unless you plan on joining
> the mass, don't go near the route.

Hence, the advice from our government to be prepared to shelter in place?

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#213385 - 12/21/10 07:28 AM Re: Terrorist Nuke? - Shelter in place, says FEMA [Re: philip]
LED Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 1474
Originally Posted By: philip
Hence, the advice from our government to be prepared to shelter in place?


That brings up a good question. Would you rather be closer to the disaster area in your home or slightly farther away stuck in traffic on some freeway?

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#213387 - 12/21/10 07:49 AM Re: Terrorist Nuke? - Shelter in place, says FEMA [Re: LED]
Richlacal Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 778
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Or Even down at The Presidio,Eating Sourdough & Clam Chowder!

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#213394 - 12/21/10 02:47 PM Re: Terrorist Nuke? - Shelter in place, says FEMA [Re: philip]
JBMat Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 745
Loc: NC
I saw that Discovery special, and what got my attention is the fallout patterns.

If I was not close enough to be affected by the blast directly, I would see which way the fallout was predicted to go and make plans from there. If I wasn't in it, why run? I am not in a major metro-plex, which is good and bad, as FT Bragg could be a target and the roads out of here suck.

Quite honestly, the plans I saw, while feasible, will break down and I fear it will be dog eat dog for a while. Nature of the beast; in this case Man.

I'd rather be home with a lot of gear, digging a shelter in the crawl space than stuck on a bus with less gear and a lot of panicked people.

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#213428 - 12/21/10 11:15 PM Re: Terrorist Nuke? - Shelter in place, says FEMA [Re: JBMat]
capsu78 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/09/07
Posts: 98
Loc: Chicagoland IL
Agree with most that "sheltering in place" decision tree would be hard to override. The "known knowns" of sticking it out would have a distinct advantage over going out to find just about any government response instructions.
It was interesting for me that the FEMA story came out last week while I was attending a "Shared strategies for Homeland Security" conference in Denver, and I was surrounded by CERT, Homeland Security, LEO and other first responders.
http://www.sharedstrategiesblog.com/

While radiological threats did not get top billing, it is easy to see that the whole field of emergency response is changing as we speak, with social media and efforts like wikicrisis changing the face of crisis response.

I opt to stay put at all costs, and until the last possible moment, hoping I can "gather the clan" and "batton down the hatches", and not rely on any government assistance (food, shelter) that hopefully I can provide myself.
_________________________
"The last time I had a "good suprise", I was 5 and it was my birthday"

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#213437 - 12/22/10 12:36 AM Re: Terrorist Nuke? - Shelter in place, says FEMA [Re: capsu78]
dropout Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/30/07
Posts: 40
The History Channel did a 2 hour special called "Day After Disaster". It was low on doom and gloom and high on expert testimony.

One important thing to remember is the size of particulate. A grain of sand with 100 time the mass of a spec of dust will hold radiation that much longer.

here's a link to the special on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doQY4xRXJJ4

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#213441 - 12/22/10 12:46 AM Re: Terrorist Nuke? - Shelter in place, says FEMA [Re: LED]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Originally Posted By: LED
[quote=philip]Would you rather be closer to the disaster area in your home or slightly farther away stuck in traffic on some freeway?


Home. In Vermont. Specifically at my parent's home, where a no-electronics genny (with sound dampening shelter) and enough fuel to pull water off the well every few hours for a month (keeps the pipes from freezing) and a woodstove and a lots of cordwood and defensable archetecture... yeah. smile

One thing I was reminded of in this conversation was the novel Warday. The guy who was in NY- got to shelter, decontaminated (hose down), and stayed put for something like three weeks.
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#213493 - 12/22/10 05:42 PM Re: Terrorist Nuke? - Shelter in place, says FEMA [Re: philip]
philip Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 639
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
I'd be happy to be here at home. My wife and I have a month's worth of food for two, tents, sleeping bags, etc. And our ham radios and plenty of battery-power. (My assumption is that a low-yield terrorist nuke isn't going to cause enough EMP to wreck our electronics.) If the antenna under our eaves has been damaged, we'll put up another one from our stash of portable HF antennas and get on the air.

We're around the corner from a fire station, so we'll be offering to do health and welfare traffic for all the first responders we can get in touch with and for our neighbors, too.

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