I hope I'm not black listed for the following comment, but here goes...

I don't know how many times I've read on this forum "If I get into trouble, I'll just use my PLB". Problem solved right? Wrong!

I know the majority in our community are very well versed and prepared. But I sure hope the few others reading our posts don't look at a PLB as there free ticket home. There is a very good chance if you're stuck somewhere, that your rescue can't get to you right away either. This is where the 72-96 hour part comes into play. If you broke a leg on a solo hike, rescue is likely under a day away. Then you can be ridiculed on the news and sites like this for hiking alone. If you are stuck in a nasty snow storm, it could be days before anyone gets to you; regardless of your mighty PLB.

So, while one of the greatest advances in personal rescue, a PLB is less useful than a deactivated cell phone (with reception) that can only call 911 (yea, a PLB will have reception 100 times over any cell phone) but the point is, your only saying HELP. I hope anyone reading these forums will remember that. Whether your mentality is 1911 then 911, or whatever, be prepared to take care of yourself.

You make an excellent point. Rescue can be hours, even days away, even in the best of circumstances. Helicopters can be grounded due to pilot fatigue, weather, maintenance, other missions, you name it.

Another point. Some wilderness accidents result in immediate consequences for the victim. If you fall 50 feet onto solid ground, activating the PLB will only result in speedy recovery of your remains. Drowning also occurs quickly and typically rescues depend upon those immediately at hand. Falls and drowning are the two main causes of back country fatalities. Only prudence and self awareness can truly keep you safe.

SAR will do everything possible. I have responded at every hour of the day or night, sometimes walking into building winter storms, or headlong into the searing heat of a desert summer day. But SAR can only do so much.

I’m actually pretty darn careful, however, any of us could experience an injury or health problem. And there have been crimes against women while in the back country so that would be another aspect for me to purchase one.

You make an excellent point - but I can't really say that I remember ever having read anything like this stuff:



on this forum.

But never mind my pedantic quarreling, we are all well advised to be reminded that PLBs aren't magical talismans. But they do take the "Search" out of "search and rescue". The "resque" part can still be tricky, though... anything from bad weather, limited resources and bureaucratic foul-ups.


And a PLB does not in any way interfere with the other tricks we all know: Leave a game plan, prepare for the unexpected, ya all know the drill. Good preparations, routines and gear greatly expands your options and gives you several layers of protection.


EDIT: I don't carry a PLB, either. I'll get one when I find the time for less family friendly expeditions. Or when the technology has matured a bit more and the price has come down a bit further...

Exactly. While a PLB will help to get you rescued, it doesn't work instantly, nor can one expect it to be 100% dependable (remember, stuff breaks).

Therefore, it's still necessary to have, at the very least, some knowledge of survival techniques for the environment in which you are traveling.

Along the same lines, it's necessary to have at least a basic knowledge of First Aid techniques to keep either yourself or someone else stable enough that they can be rescued.

Sometimes gear fails, at which point you either have to replace it or adapt as best you can.

I look at a PLB the same way as I look at something like a seat belt. When I drive my car with my seat belt on, I don't think to myself, "hey, I'm wearing a seat belt, let's drive a little wild today." Seat belt or no seat belt, crashes have consequences, and I drive to avoid crashes. PLB or no PLB, when the SHTF in the back country, it's going to have consequences. I plan, prepare, and execute just as if there were no such thing as a PLB; I plan, prepare, and execute to avoid bad situations.

HJ

Nice reply HJ,

I often do carry a PLB, but it is just another tool in the toolbox. Mike

Exactly. It's just a crazy, super-bad-ass, souped up, high tech signal mirror/whistle/flare. I don't let it make me sloppy.

HJ

That's what cell phones are for silly.

You may not act that way but others certainly do. Populations do tend to act riskier when they have better safety equipment whether it's seat belts or ABS and by extension PLBs.

See for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peltzman_effect

I would like to think having a PLB won't change anything but I have also found myself saying to myself, "I would feel more comfortable taking that solo cross-desert drive if I buy the PLB" In other words, it does enable more risky behavior just as the ability to use a cell phone in the wilderness does.

The converse is also obviously true. Imagine how safely you would drive with a 10" spike mounted on the center of your steering wheel.

There are also many corollaries. People with little chance of outside help also devote a huge amount of resources to preparedness (such as an Apollo mission) and if the chance of rescue is high -- such as in a city drive to work, you don't devote nearly as many resources or demand as much safety equipment.

You raise a good point. While I generally wouldn't change my behavior or the type of trips I take, I might be willing to do more things solo than I otherwise would. The existence of a PLB therefore perhaps increases my risk taking -- if you count solo trips as per se risky.

Interestingly, there have been studies that have reported that groups are more likely to have accidents in the wilderness. Some of it may be due to peer pressure. Some of it may be due to "I'm with a group; I feel safe" thinking.

In other words, the idea that solo travel is in and of itself more risky isn't necessarily true. The idea that it's safer to travel with a group assumes that the individuals don't relax their vigilance when they join a group, a poor assumption.

HJ

Well that turned out better than expected...

Having a PLB as a last resort is a great asset in the survival toolbox. Making foolish decisions and taking additional risks by knowing that it is there, is a matter of self discipline and judgment.

Similar to the discussions in the hiking solo thread. People may take more risks when hiking in a group, because they know the group can help bail them out.

Most everyone is willing to take more risk when they know there is a backup plan. The simple fact that most of us carry gear in the back country causes us to accept additional risk. At the same time, we're willing to accept some form of additional risk because we believe we're properly prepared to handle that risk.

All in all, going solo is riskier. Overall, your chances of getting out of anywhere alive is greater in a group. There are always cases where that is not the case. But they are the exception and the same may not hold true the next time around.

For the wise, it boils down to risk tolerance and what you are willing to accept. For the unwise, stupidity leads them astray. We will all have times when we make foolish actions in the spur of the moment, that may even go against our risk tolerance level. In those moments, we may get excited by the rush; however, we must also accept the resulting consequence, whether good or bad.

First, I think your wrong that this forum favors PLB as a problem solver over personal responsibility or education/ability to self-rescue. Its not a black ball comment, but it is an incorrect statement.

PLB's, EPIRBs, flares, laser flares, strobes, cell phones, survey tape, soap stones, signal mirrors, whistles, bright clothing, should be treated as nothing but a technique. Some with obvious technological accelerators.

Second, I carry the SPOT2 and it has not changed my hiking, trail running, camping at all. I am not personally more risk prone nor more risk tolerant of those around me. My trail pals are as competent or more competent than I. There are still areas where I run, hike that my first line of defense when in trouble is my side arm and not my SPOT. Not that I have needed to produce either, but I have both. -And that is not hyperbole. Prospectors in many areas of the Superstition Mtn's will ward off people from their search areas with firearms.

Is that circus still going on? Back in the 50's I had the experience of looking down the barrel of a prospector's 1911 Colt, clearly aimed at my COM. Excessive politeness secured my survival.

I believe the USFS had declared the Sups off limits to mineral exploration back in the 70's....I'll bet there is more gold in my fillings than in the entire Superstition Range.

Oh, yes, indeed they will.

Also, try hiking down the E. Fork of the San Gabriel River some evening like some friends of mine did recently as they were getting back from a hike late. The prospectors working various "claims" really got excited.

HJ

First, I never intended to convey the forum favors PLBs as a problem solver over personal responsibility. I don't think I stated it as such either. You're the first to conclude that. But those less experienced readers of the forum could prematurely draw such conclusions. That was the reason for posting this thread.

Second, if your conclusion of your personal behavior is such that your preparations have not made you more confident in the back country, that's fine. For many, and I would claim most, it does make them more confident. And with that confidence, most accept more risk in their decisions. There are always exceptions. Your level of self diciplin is to be commended.

This reminds me of something that happened more then a few years back. There was a fair (National Trail Day?) at the local open space preserve that included both the park rangers and the Sheriff's SAR team. I asked them both the same question: "What equipment or skill would you like hikers to have?"

The park ranger suggested a jacket and a book of matches. Then he related a story about an unexpected overnight where he lite two campfires and slept between them.

The SAR member told me to "Carry a cell phone and a GPS"

Building on that.

Let me interject a little additional balance in this debate. Just for a moment, let's look beyond the individual, however independent, come what may, I am responsible only for myself, attitude. All well and good when there were no viable, affordable alternatives. That is no longer the case.

Very few of us live in a vacuum. When we don't return from a trip, or something untoward occurs during a trip, stuff happens, very little of it without negative consequences.

Family and friends are affected. SAR personnel are put a substantially increased risk.

Personally, I think it is beyond selfish and self-centered when you decide not to take along an inexpensive device that addresses these issues. A PLB saves so much more than your life.

It is NOT a substitute for being prepared, but it is an essential part of being prepared. There is simply no excuse not to carry a PLB at this point.

Just my not very humble opinion, of course.

Thank you Doug! I fail to see how adding an additional safety device equates to taking greater risks. For years when hiking or trial riding on horses I’ve always carried supplies for a unexpected night out, first aid supplies and signaling devices and that sure hasn‘t caused me to take any greater risks! In fact my preparedness awareness probably has taught be to be more careful as well being more vigilant before proceeding into a potential risky situation. I always carry my cell phone and my vehicle is equipped with On-Star and those sure don’t entice me into situations that I wouldn’t have taken in the days before cells and On Star.

I can’t speak for everyone who might invest in a PLB and how they might view it in regards to taking additional risks or not being prepared with conventional supplies, but heck I drive a 4WD vehicle too and don’t go rip roaring around on snow or ice covered roads either.

Of course there was the now notorious incident in the Grand Canyon where irresponsible activation of a PLB launched three helicopter sorties that were completely unnecessary. I don't believe that was a unique incident of frivolous PLB activation.

Flying in a helicopter in the Grand Canyon meets my definition of "substantially increased risk," which, incidentally, is not characteristic of the typical SAR mission.

PLBs cut both ways, in my opinion.

However, I agree with your overall point which is quite an admission from a luddite like me, growling at the rear of my cave. One reason is that I got along for many decades without a PLB, depending upon good fortune and finally, a bit of expertise. However, a good, light, and cheap PLB does seem like a rational purchase. I am intrigued by the new offering from ACR.

Yes, but “irresponsible” would be the key not the PLB!

If there is an overarching, bottom line message that stands out in the many threads on this forum, it would be something like: "The most important factor in survival situations is the knowledge, skills, and abilities of the individuals involved. Gear and gadgets are significant, but they are definitely in second place."

The PLB is just a piece of electronic gear, and its most important element is the nut holding it.