Playing in the rain is usually fun. I don't mind getting a little wet, and modern layered clothing keeps me pretty warm and comfortable even when damp.

But I am not happy with light Goretex inevitably failing after a few hours of woods scrambling, or heavier solutions that trap too much heat and restrict movement too much.

Have you found a happy medium?

Thoughts?

Thanks.

Gortex Gen 3 is the best, yes there are versions of Gortex and if you have a light version of Gortex you may want to look into the version.

The heavier weight Gortex or Gortex Gen 3. I just checked Wiki and they don't mention the version of Gortex but when I purchased my Gortex from a man who made Gortex gear for the Special Forces he did mention generations of Gortex.

I have had good luck with most Gortex from LL Bean (insert standard disclaimer)

I had a student's family that were commercial salmon fishermen... long gill nets tended from skiffs... they used only Helly Hanson rainwear... the only product they said that would withstand the wear/tear..I used one of their light weight caped back rain jackets (taslan and two layers of nylon, not sure if there was a coating) for years, but only for moderate activity.. here in Florida there is not enough partial pressure difference for the GoreTex coating to work well in the high humidity...you might check their current line of outdoor clothing... I take the GoreTex when I head north.

For me the answer is NO. I've not found any rain gear that I particularly like.

Jackets of any kind tend to make me sweat too much unless its quite cool out. I've tried permeable and non-permeable - same thing.

My solution is typically a long poncho (Exped Bivy Poncho - I'm 6'5" tall, so length is important). I can't stand the poncho hood, so I wear a synthetic Tilley hat to keep the rain off my head & glasses.

Even the poncho can make me sweat in summer, but I can "loft" it get the air circulating.

Ken

For me the answer is it DEPENDS. I had friends who grew up working commercial fisheries in Alaska and they swear by Helly Hansen for hard outdoor work - but its a dog chugging up a mountainside hike in the Cascades, I tried that. Folks swear by Goretex and that seems to work for many, until it fails like all layers inevitably do, and it remains pricey, expensive enough that you can grumble about the cost when it fails. I use an eVent jacket = the mythical $40 Teva eVent discontinued jacket I and thousands of others bought years ago, I wish I'd bought several - that works great for me, but after 12 hours in hikeable rain I wasn't any drier than I had been in an older Goretex jacket. But I was dry enough, and warm. My best solution is layers - Patagonia capilene near the skin, wool above that, eVent, then a non-permeable layer when I stop for a break to keep the rain off. A change of capilene and socks in my pack for any surprise overnights. Does an umbrella count as a layer? It sure works like one.

FWIW I also bought an Eddie Bauer rain jacket, one of their new mountaineer series, that keeps the rain off really well. But you will perspire inside, and I reckon it works better in colder climates of snow and snow/rain. That was also a good buy, I could never spend $300 or more on a rain jacket even if guaranteed to keep me dry.

My solution is to have several types of rain gear and try and pair it with the temperature, weather, and activity level. In short it doesn't always work, but I try.

Poncho's Work for me,with Nylon Pants/Merino Wool Socks,At least Here in The West!Poly-Fleece or Merino Wool helps with wicking sweat,Of course Diet/Exercise play's a Key role in your body's propensity to Sweat,Of which is what makes a person Uncomfortable in Rainwear,To begin with! Capilene is Definitely,The Very Best for Comfort,underneath Not-So-Breathable Fabrics/Materials,or Without for that Matter,You Will Pay for Comfort,One way or Another!

There is no perfect solution. Later Gore-Tex works fairly well, especially if worn with a wicking layer. Venting whenever possible is a good idea as well. Moderating physical activity and removing inner layers is a good idea as well. In really wet conditions, like a boat deck in high winds, it is back to good old impermeable oilskins and foul weather gear. Then you will at east be warm and damp, rather than cold and damp.

Beans light weight Goretex,over 20 years old and never failed.
i have tried ponchos and coated nylon and this works best for what i do.the only wet i have had is when i did not button the snaps on the front and water came thru the zipper.at home walking the dog i return %100 dry,on canoe trips portaging gear it gets damp under it but never wet.if it's cold i wear polyfluff under it,warm, a nylon fishing shirt.the saving grace with this jacket is that i don't get cold and wet and in the end,out on the lakes,that's all i need.i don't expect the same level of comfort as i do at home.also i don't need to live in my rain suit because at the end of the day i know i'll have a warm tent and meal.the rain gear is just a small part of what should be a "system" aimed at comfort and if need be survival.


at the Devils Cascade Portage.



and at the end of the day it's light enough to dry in the wind in a short time.

Thanks to Dagny's recommendation on this forum, I’m now a fan of the Marmot PreCip jacket and pants. I’ve had the opportunity to test them out several times this fall and today in a snow storm. I got them large enough for a good mid layer. They fold up to next to nothing in the pack.

I have an older Marmot gore tex jacket that is great in cold and wet conditions and it's tough as nails.

Yes, three cheers for Marmot! Jacket and pants.

A friend took my first Marmot PreCip to the Himalayas (Annapurna trek) a decade ago and it worked so well for her she now has several (as do I -- they're like M&Ms...).

The men's pants are presently on sale at REI (33% off)

http://www.rei.com/product/738907

Also a sweet deal on the men's Marmot Precip jacket (39% off!).
http://www.rei.com/product/718330


I also have an LL Bean Gore-Tex shell that dates back to the late-90s and has been terrific. It's most notable success was keeping me dry on a hike during a record-breaking rainfall in New Hampshire in October '05. That was a cold monsoon. That was near Crawford Notch. We wore parkas, rain hats, rain pants, gaiters and Gore-Tex boots. Was up there with a friend from Oregon who is an avid backpacker and didn't shy away from making the best of the bad weather.

I keep that Bean jacket in my teardrop trailer.

If its warm enough the best rain-wear is no rain-wear. Nude if your proud, and the law and/or norms allow. Speedoes if you're forced to to maintain legal minimums but still want to flaunt it. Synthetic shorts if you want to maintain a degree of mystery.

Except for completely impermeable rain-wear, heavily coated material that won't absorb any water, HH and others, just about every sort of rain-wear benefits greatly from the use of a Durable Water Repellent(DWR).

Barrier coated synthetics, with waterproof coating, either breathable or not, on the inside becomes sodden and clammy if the fabric soaks up water. Even if they don't actually leak. Even high-dollar Goretex is pretty miserable if it stops shedding water. IMO if the repellent gives up I'm almost always better off with a fabric with the a completely waterproof coating on the outside.

In fact water repellent is so vital for comfort that highly repellent fabrics are as comfortable and effective as items that have membranes. Or they are as long as the repellent coating keeps working. There are even a few repellents that work on poly fleece well enough to make them effective rain-wear for light and misting rain. At least one brand will do the same thing for cotton. I once treated a tee shirt and it kept light rain off for a couple of washes. A self-defeating item for really cold weather, wet cotton is not your friend, it was an interesting variation for tropical conditions.

Of course how you define "active" makes a lot of difference. Walking with a light pack over flat ground is active. Humping a pack that weighs half your body weight up a steep hill while hacking a path through dense vegetation with a machete is another level of active. I've never seen any breathable membrane that could keep up with the second case if to kept it sealed enough to keep all the rain out.

As someone who grew up in the SE Alaskan rainforest & who currently lives near Seattle, my opinion is that it's not about staying dry so much as it is about staying warm. Aside from getting trenchfoot, having your body get wet is basically an emotional discomfort. Most of the danger from rain is that it makes you cold and decreases the insulative properties of your clothes.

In the short run, most raingear or ponchos will keep you warm & dry if the conditions are right. In the long run, though, you will get soaked from water or sweat no matter what you wear. The best you can do is find the raingear/poncho that will keep you comfortable under most conditions in your climate at your typical activity level.

From what I've seen, most Alaskans swear by Helly Hansen while most Washingtonians prefer Marmot. Personally I find Martmot's Precip to have too many bells & whistles, and for the last 6 years I've been using Cabela's ultralight raingear.

No easy question to answer...

I’m used to do a lot of outdoor activities in different climates here in south America (from Amazon to Patagonia), and I’m a little obsessed with raingear…like some others here are with knifes and flashlights…

I have already tested some configurations, but didn’t found an ideal solution for every situation. So, I carry a little bit more of raingear for each trip. I generally have in my pack:

Goretex or similar Rainjacket
Big garbage bag, space blanket and/or a plastic poncho in one of the jacket pockets, as a last resort, totally impermeable barrier.
Lightweight nylon Poncho
Goretex or similar rainpants
Coolmax underwear
Dry clothes in a plastic bag

During rapid showers with no wind while hiking in the Brazilian central savannas, I most often just throw the poncho over myself, covering also the pack. I think it is the most practical solution in open terrain and no wind.

For sustained wet & cold conditions (Patagonia), I use the coolmax underwear and the goretex jacket and pans (with the poncho over everything, if wind and terrain permits!).

And for sustained activity in wet and hot conditions (Amazon!) I use only the Coolmax t-shirt. I just accept that I’m going to be wet anyway! But I change for dry clothes as soon as I stop the physical activity.

The jacket that I use more often is a Marmot Precipice Jacket (my EDC jacket). I also trust very much the Goretex Packlite Foray Jacket from Outdoor Research. For more demanding situations, like mountaineering, I use a tough Ansilta (Argentina made) Goretex XCR jacket. And I’m also experimenting with the idea of using an impermeable lightweight jacket under a BDU shirt, smock or windbreak, to protect the impermeable barrier from abrasion.

Fabio



No easy question to answer...

I’m used to do a lot of outdoor activities in different climates here in south America (from Patagonia to Amazon), and I’m a little obsessed with raingear…Like some others here are with knifes…

I have already tested some configurations, but didn’t found an ideal solution for every situation. So, I carry a "kit" of raingear for each trip. I generally have in my pack:

Goretex or similar Rainjacket
Big garbage bag, space blanket and/or a plastic poncho in one of the jacket pockets, as a last resort, totally impermeable barrier.
Lightweight nylon Poncho
Goretex or similar rainpants
Coolmax underwear
Dry clothes in a plastic bag

During rapid showers with no wind while hiking in the Brazilian central savannas, I most often just throw the poncho over myself, covering also the pack. I think it is the most practical solution in open terrain and no wind.

For sustained wet & cold conditions (Patagonia), I use the coolmax underwear and the goretex jacket and pans (with the poncho over everything, if wind and terrain permits!).

And for sustained activity in wet and hot conditions (Amazon!) I use only the Coolmax t-shirt. I just accept that I’m going to be wet anyway! But I change for dry clothes as soon as I stop the physical activity.

The jacket that I use more often is a Marmot PreCip Jacket. It is my EDC jacket, that lives im my day bag.

I also trust very much my Foray Jacket from Outdoor Research.The Goretex Packlite is outstanding during storms! On the other hand, I don't think the side "poncho transformer" zippers are realy practical.

For more demanding situations, like mountaineering, I use a tough Ansilta (Argentina made) Goretex XCR jacket. And I’m also experimenting with the idea of using an impermeable lightweight jacket under a BDU shirt, smock or windbreak, to protect the impermeable barrier from abrasion.

In general, I'm quite satisfied with PreCip, Goretex Packlite and even with the older Goretex XCR.

Fabio

I have not found a happy medium. Either you get wet from lack of venting (personal wet) or the garment leaks and you get wet (environmental wet).

I admit some personal vanity in saying when I lived in the PNW I did best with a small ruck (or no ruck) wearing basic waterproof pants (Sierra Design, et al) and a G.I. rubber poncho or similar model. Pants kept me warm, poncho let the upper body vent. Stayed dry all over. A decent poncho requires a lack of vanity/ego that I in a crowd did not have. Because you look like a dork.

Today I have less ego so would wear that get up in a group setting but find that technology allows me to stay dry through proper layering and a light loose shell. I currently like Frogg Toggs gear. It waterproof and very light and can be very cheap (about $60 a set of top/bottom). But it can tear easy if your sliding a lot. I carry Tenacious Tape, which IMO is better than Duct Tape for outerwear fixes. At the price of that gear I own multiple sets and sizes for people in a hurry.

I love hiking in the rain, which is why I love winter. Never had a true Goretex jacket "wet out" as they say, but some other, thinner coats have like my Marmot Oracle I've had for years. I love Marmot Precip as well, but when its colder than usual I go with a full Helley Hansen rain suit. Total cost under $100 bucks and they're very durable. BTW, I was under the impression your average Goretex jacket will not soak through even if the DWR finish has worn off. Anyone comment on this?

My understanding is that the vapor transport really doesn't work that well when the supposedly DWR-coated outer layer is soaking wet. As a result, you get condensation on the inside - but the membrane itself is totally water proof (assuming no punctures due to wear and tear). The net result: You get wet and blame the goretex membrane for not working anymore.

Re-impregnate with DWR and you can revitalize a lot of the original functionality.


IMO, there is no perfect solution for staying dry. You have to live with a decent compromise (such as only reasonably damp or just a little wet after prolonged rain). Even the most breathable fabric won't breathe well enough to avoid moisture buildup and condensation, which will degrade the insulating properties of most materials. Give a bit of wear and tear, and neither zippers nor that fancy membrane will be 100% water proof. This is the main reason why I love wool... Given enough time, you will get a little wet or at least damp.

This is a Brit Solution:
http://www.paramo.co.uk/en-gb/index.php

I use it. It's bomb proof, very well made, field repairable and it's the only stuff that I would trust to keep me alive on Dartmore at it's nastist. That means 1 - 5 Celcius, gale and raining upwards.

This stuff is still rocking when Gore-tex et al have quite and run off crying for their Mommy's.



No, I don't work for them, pity because I'd get it cheap.

Along with Paramo, Keela perhaps should also get a mention with their Munro Jacket. It all pretty good stuff along with Goretex (the best known) eVent and Triple Point Ceramic etc.

http://www.keela.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65_72&products_id=180

I wouldn't have a problem using any of these fabrics in the worst of conditions.

For high workout i.e. climbing the side of a mountain or cycling then there are some pretty good soft shell materials available as well such as Epic Soft shell. Although not completely waterproof, products like this EDZ Epic Sierra Cagoule might be worth a look.

http://www.thermalshop.co.uk/product/epic_sierra_jacket_with_hood

Hard to explain exactly how water repellent coating failing makes the jacket less comfortable if you haven't experienced it. No, generally that is, Goretex, as long as the membrane remains intact, seams sealed, and clean doesn't leak. But when/if the repellent gives up the entire exterior becomes saturated and clingy. It feels like, I don't know exactly, perhaps like wearing a wet tee-shirt over a plastic bag.

It is a good news/bad news situation. Good news is that there are good DWR, durable water repellent, treatments out there and if a Goretex jacket just doesn't seem to work as well as it once did it might just be partial failure of the repellent that is the problem. Retreating with DWR may restore an old friend to health for a few more years, or extended second-line service.

The bad news is that Gortex, and similar, don't always take well to cleaning and retreament with a DWR finish. I've had people tell me that beyond hosing off with potable water and dabbing off spills they never wash their Goretex. Once it soaks up a certain amount of human grease, salt and dirt it will leak and no amount of washing and retreatment will restore it. That your best option is replacement. And these are people who spend hundreds of dollars buying a single jacket that lasts them a couple of years hard camping use, or one long third-world trip. One quipped that hiking in South America in the 90s he could buy your typical mountain village for the price of his $1200 rain ensemble.

Of course, since then, prices have come down and Goretex, and other membrane products, have gotten better.

Just remember,The Weather doesn't care what you look like,It's Main Goal is to Get You Wet!What are you gonna' do about it?Military Poncho,Best Bang For The Buck!Merino Wool,Comfortable & Warm,Even when Wet!

I agree with Art. Stripping down to a pair of swim trunks works great. If it gets cold, I will put a rain shell over my wet skin to keep the wind off. Change or air dry after.

Yeah, I definitely know what a goretex jacket without DWR feels like. I've had the same Marmot goretex jacket for years and have re-treated it with Grangers DWR and Nikwax. Unfortunately nothing seems to work anymore and it barely beads water. I guess the wetness felt underneath was my own sweat due to loss of breathability. Oh well, at least I got many good years out of that jacket.

It's old school but I've had at least one success regaining water repellent finish when other methods failed by spraying on several coats of silicone. I don't know if it made any difference but I took some care to pull the membrane away from the outer shell when I sprayed on the silicone. Two coats, allowed outside to dry (VOCs and it smells like a bus) in between, allowed me to return my lovingly patched 'old dependable' to second line service as work-wear and riding in the truck.

Silicone isn't all that durable. Recoating every year is usually necessary but after two or three years of getting a regular dose it does seem to get saturated and last longer.

Nikwax makes some good DWR finishes. I used one that gets washed in and polished in the dryer. I've used that a bit but it seems inconsistent. Sometimes extra drying time on high seems to activate it. Other times, not. A friend suggested that some inconsistency may have to do with how long it has been sitting on the shelf.