I don't know why this is important, yet, but hopefully someone will figure it out and turn this thread into something useful.

I decided to give Diamond "Strike Anywhere" matches another try the other day (I had given up on them a couple years back because they seemed to no longer "Strike Anywhere", or even keep their fire starting material intact on the end of the stick when you tried to strike them).

At any rate, I found boxes at OSH Hardware and saw a little notice on the box front "NEW LOOK! Same Great Product" and a couple pictures of the match heads with the familiar white-capped red tip. It does look like there's a bit more of the white material on the red tip now.

Anyway, I decided to see if these "NEW LOOK" matches would strike on paper. Damned, if they don't strike very well indeed on one of those cheap thin paper plates (it wasn't a "coated" one). So I picked up a large Columbian DuraLOK Grip-Seal 9 X 12" envelope, and whammo, good striking surface. So then I tried a standard piece of Staples Multi-Purpose Printer Paper, and whoosh, instant flame.

I dunno. Who'da thunk it?

Edit: Cardboard box material. Perfect.

This could become my new life's work. ;-)

Edit: Normal business card. Primo.

Holy cow, somebody actually *improved* a product instead of finding a way to pad the profit margin? This is unheard of!

What probably happened is that you got nice, fresh stock. The matches on store shelves can be there for ages, after sitting in a distribution warehouse.

Fresh strike-anywhere matches work well, but IME they don't store worth a darn. It's the phosphor tip that always fails first. If I have strike-anywheres in a kit, I always include the striker from book matches just in case.

Sotto,

"I dunno. Who'da thunk it?"

Only those who have been using matches for a long time. Denim works well also.

I am a bit confused by all those who decry matches. The flint and steel replaced the older methods instantly, and was itself replaced just as quickly by matches when they first came out. Those first matches were a no where as good as what we have today. Why some insist on going backwards, I do not know. My experience is totally different. In 50 years or so of lighting fires, I have NEVER needed anything but a match. From the high plains to the high rockies to the high arctic to a lot of low and wet places, every time I have needed a fire it was started by a match. Occasionaly one failed, but I don't recall needing more that 2. If the fire is set as well as you would for a spark lighter a match will light it quicker and more easily.

I have no quarrel with those who like to play with the other techniques, I enjoy starting a fire other ways as well. It is just that when I need a fire I always reach for a match. Some like lighters and if they work for you they are as good or better. Ferro rods and sparkers are great to back up the backup and I always have a few available. Being a gear junkie, I have lots of types and styles and am always looking for a better one. For survival they fall far behind the match and can be expected to never be used in those times.

In the field I carry a K&E match safe with strike anywhere matches in several locations (one with my stove, one on my person) for daily use. I carry another long one with REI stormproof matches as a backup. Behind that are a Spark Lite in my PSK, a ferro rod (or two) and anything I am playing with at the time. In dry climates I usually carry a penny box of strike on the box matches and use them before the ones in my match safe.

Rant Mode OFF.


The best,

Jerry

Jerry:

I've probably worn out at least a pair of denim jeans over the years trying to strike a "Strike Anywhere" match on them. I just can't get it to work. It looks pretty cool, though. Hmmm, maybe I wash mine too often?

I just don't trust any matches for a survival situation. I've had bad experiences. It seems like a bad idea to have my survival hinge on how nice the manufacturer decided to play, or on what date the matches are going to go bad. I don't even want to pack matches as part of my big three. I'd rather have three ferro rods, or two lighters plus a ferro rod, or another combination. If I expand it out to five methods, then I'll throw some waterproof matches in there...maybe.

Matches are so popular because everybody knows how to use them. Why is it that people who like matches always seem to have a ferro rod as their ultimate back up? Perhaps they view a ferro rod as a reliable anchor that will work if all else fails. I surely won't use matches as my backup.

There are so many other methods that are more reliable and less moody. Ferro rods seem to be the least gimmicky fire starters and are easily my favorite. I have started fires in cold, wet conditions with a ferro rod. I'm not confident matches would have worked in those same situations. Also, with a ferro rod, you can actually test the same tool that will be starting your fires. You can test a lighter too. Unfortunately, there's no way to test the next match.

Well, when my back is against the wall, I go with piezo-electric lighters (a la Cricket or Scripto). But I was more than a little surprised those Diamonds would light on a piece of printer paper. I've definitely had worse luck with them on various pieces of sand paper or dry rocks, for example, having the tipping material crack off before I could get the match to light. If I do carry SA matches in the future, I will also have a dry piece of folded Staples printer paper in my wallet.

I dip strike-anywhere matches in Good wax,& Carry them with 2 or 3 other Means of Fire.They are Xlnt,& Fail-Safe for use as,If They Fail to light,they will Still make an Xlnt Tinder w/an added Accelerant,Dual-Purpose is Alway's Good To Go!

Keep in mind that, while a ferrocerium rod and striker are known as a flint and steel, they are not the same flint and steel used prior to matches.

A real flint and steel is a somewhat difficult fire starting method, as it typically requires char-cloth or tinder-fungas to catch the ember (as the sparks aren't hot enough to readily catch most material on fire).

A ferrocerium rod produces sparks that are much hotter and can readily catch a lot of substances on fire. This actually was invented in 1903, which is newer than even strike-anywhere (1898) and safety matches (1844).

For me, the advent of ferrocerium has pretty much caused the match to fall out of favor. This is because I find the ferro-rod and striker to be just as effective and more durable/weatherproff than matches, and I find matches to be less practical than lighters (which contain ferrocerium).

The other thing to keep in mind is that a typical ferro-rod and bic lighter can both start about 3,000 seperate fires. That would be a lot of matches to carry if each match can only start one fire at best.

I guess that's the main issue for me, too. I don't see anything wrong with using matches but generally you'll just get one fire per match at best, often less. And you can only carry so many matches on you. Even a small ferro rod will light hundreds of fires and the larger ones will light thousands. I generally do carry a ferro rod, lighter and matches just to be safe but so far I've never needed more than the rod. Still, naked flame can be an asset when the chips are down so I don't anticipate ditching the lighter or matches anytime soon.

That is quite true, but how many fires will you have to light per trip, or per incident? Typically if you light a fire for dinner, cook on it, and keep it going for a bit for warmth, etc., by the next morning all you have to do is coax it to life again without using a match. I always tried to use one match for one fire.

Once camped in the Arizona desert, we were able to use desert ironwood for our fuel. Not only did we have a good cookfire in the evening, for breakfast all I had to do was put the teapot on the still glowing coals - they were still perfect for cooking. We probably should have tried to make iron or something.

I might understand the love for matches if ferro rods were difficult to use, but they're relatively easy. My skill with a ferro rod is almost as good as the skill in this cool video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuD8LrB8SGY&feature=player_embedded

This is true, but when I use matches I typically have to replenish what I use after a couple trips or whatever since I don't typically carry a big box of matches with me.

By comparison, I've had the same ferro-rod on my keychain for 10+ years now and even after starting probably hundreds of fires I haven't had to do anything to it or replenish anything; and it will still work just fine. Plus it's almost always on my person, so I don't have to worry about making sure I grabbed my match container, refilled it lately, whatever.

Along the same lines, a Bic is easier to use than matches and they can also last years before disposal. I keep a bic in each of my jackets and a few of them are going on 5 years old now. They don't get used often, but they do get used occasionally and I haven't had to do anything to them yet, except for remembering to take them out and put them back in when I wash each jacket. (With that said, I did put one through the wash accidentally and it came out just fine.)

All in all, I don't have a problem with matches, I just don't have a use for them since I feel better alternatives exist. I don't even keep any in my camping pack or my bug-out bag anymore.

When butane lighters start smelling like burning phosphorus I'll discard the matches completely. Until then, I still need my "fix" every now and again. If you really like that aspect of it, there's always the big compressed wood and wax/glue fire-starter jobbies with the big red gob of phosphorus on the end, or better yet, a ROAD FLARE.

i also noticed the new matches and picked up a box.i cut the striker strip off and that and as many matches as will fit go into a small plastic bottle in the bottom of my pack never to be used unless all else fails..the all else being a lighter.

Excellent. My original idea in my initial post was to highlight the fact that these newer SA matches light very well indeed on rough paper, no striker strip needed at all. I just tried a regular business card and the match burst into flame perfectly, first time. In fact, I just tried the Diamond Strike Anywhere matchbox itself, and the match lites perfectly being struck just on the end of the cardboard inner box that slides out, and on the inside of the outer box. The match wouldn't strike on the colored outside of the box. So really, no actual striking strip on the box is absolutely necessary.

I do, however, remember one occasion long ago when I had one of those old-fashioned chrome-plated brass Marble "match-safes" with the roughened outside surface for striking. They were austensibly "water-proof" (not really), but the idea was to open the match-safe, take out a match, close the match-safe, and strike the match on the outside of the safe. It worked great with the "old-fashioned" strike-anywhere matches, not so good with the later ones. Anyway, one time I didn't close the case all the way and struck a match on the outside. A little teeny flaming piece of phosphor found its way back inside the match-safe which still had about 20 matches inside. WHOOOOOSSSSHHHHHH!! Instant rocket in my hand.

If it REALLY NEEDS to be lit, I use a plastic film cannister filled with Thermite. I light it with 6" of magnesium ribbon. Bury 5" in the thermite with 1" sticking out. It still takes a BIC to light the ribbon!

If you would rather just email an order OF PRE-MADE kits -
http://www.alphachemicals.com/thermite_fire_starters

Or if you want want enouth Thermite for a life time of getting lost -
http://www.alphachemicals.com/inc/sdetail/2683
The Magnesium ribbon is extra but ships free.

Now that's what I'd call an inflammatory remark. ;-)

Ha, that website is so understated. I quote:

"Just place the thermite firestarter on your kindling, light the fuse, and step back." (emphasis mine)

And again:

"3 oz of casted thermite in a snap-top container that produces about 2 ounces of molten iron." (emphasis mine)

Love it.

In my experience the key factor in how well strike-anywhere matches work is how dry they, and the striking surface, are. Fresh and dry from the sealed box they work very easily and well. Leave a couple out on the counter while you take a shower and they are much less reliable. A few days exposed to southern humidity and they lose a lot of their edge. A few months, and I've had a hard time getting a light out of a full box of them.

Wax or shellac helps, a few people used to stuff little desiccant capsules into their match safe. I've seen a commercial match safe that was brass and had a bit of desiccant in the lid that could be dried in the oven.

If these matches have found a way around this, or are less sensitive to moisture, I may have to start including more matches in may gear.

The consistent theme of this discussion is that many of us carry multiple means of lighting a fire. Hardly a problem,since there are many lightweight, relatively dependable devices. Matches are one of the more commonly selected options. They have some advantages, and also some drawbacks.

My history with matches has been good, but my first time ignition device, day in and day out, is a butane lighter. I enjoy reading about the parlor tricks like using a battery and steel wool.

Screw matches- I gotta get me some of that Thermite!

Truthfully, the majority of the time here in So Cal, I never light a fire. It isn't even legal to smoke in most of the places I end up bushwhacking around. However, occasionally I will take my Trangia alcohol stove along on a hike to heat up some soup, coffee or whatever. I don't use any kind of flame producing device to light the alcohol. The best device for that I've found is this:



It's a Coleman lantern spark igniter, and it throws a big fat spark within a gnat's eyelash of exactly where you want it with a short quick twist of that knurled knob on the left end. It even stores spare flints inside that knob. It's cheap, effective, and I have several of them. There's little or no risk of knocking over my stove like there might be with a metal flint stick and striker, and like I say, there's no stray spraying of sparks all over the place, just one nice big reliable fat spark right at the end opposite the knurled knob. Ideal for lighting the Trangia burner, or throwing a spark precisely into fibers in a frizzed up cotton ball soaked in petroleum jelly, or other prepared tinder. I've even used it to set pieces of jute cord on fire to light a campfire with. And, it's nearly indestructible.

Oh, and just for grins, with every spark it also creates the world's most perfect smoke ring.

That's about $4 on Amazon.com.
http://www.amazon.com/Coleman-829C705-Lant-Spark-Igniter/dp/B001CEMK1K

I guess that makes the Survival Spark overpriced at $19.
http://www.tripleaughtdesign.com/Equipment/Tools/Survival-Spark

sotto..i of course fold the striker in half with the rough bit to the inside so a bad move taking a match out will not strike a light.other methods have been to glue a bit of striker to the inside of the jar lid but that was sort of a short area to strike the match so i went back to the folded strip.a candle stub fits into the jars i use and keeps the matches from moving around and damaging the heads which are always kept down so if you pluck the match out with wet fingers your not taking it by the head.i took a pack of paper matches on a couple canoe trips just to see how long they lasted just carried around in a shirt pocket.by the second evening they were almost useless,the striker strip seemed to fail first.old,really old matches might really be the best.Dillon Wallace in his second book,the first being The Lure Of the Labrador Wild,tells of a canoe upset in the rapids of the George River.in that second book The Long Labrador Trail he tells of how he got a fire going that saved his life and that of his canoe mate by using a old phosphorus match--his last--when the new ones,this is 1910 or so,"buttered" on a rock when he struck them.

Canoedogs:

Those are the coolest books.

And, you said the magic word: candles. Love 'em. Should be in everyone's PSK. I like the trick birthday candles you can't blow out. Hint: spit puts 'em out.

"Screw matches- I gotta get me some of that Thermite!"

Have a word with Blast -- he probably buys it in bulk!


Sotto: just lick your thumb and forefinger and pinch them out.

Sue

Thermite.

I used to use Cadweld to make field connections on in-ground copper ground arrays. Cadweld is essentially thermite and powdered copper that produces a flow of molten copper when ignited. You place the copper cables, large copper cables, you want to connect into a carbon mold, load the Cadweld and ignite. When it works it produces a solid cast copper connection that is mechanically and electrically strong, and largely immune to corrosion. A thing of beauty.

If it goes wrong, the most common fault being the presence of moisture that flashes to steam when the molten copper hits it, it explodes with liquid copper and bits of carbon block as shrapnel. Explosions vary from a petulant 'pop', to people potentially getting seriously hurt 50' away. Cadwelding connections in the rain can be quite a thrilling game. If the Cadwelding doesn't bite you there are fair odds that the torches you use to dry the cables and molds are out to get you.

Good times.

I guess you could carry a couple of Cadweld charges for fire starting but even the small ones are about two ounces and you have to ignite the charges. We used spark ignitors, same spark guns used by welders to ignite their torch, or electrical ignitors, essentially the same system used by model racketeers. Total weight for two or three tries would weigh considerably more than a couple of Bics, a full match safe, and a ferro rod or three ... combined.

Military issue thermite or white phosphorus grenades would work, and have been used, but the National Parks Service generally frowns on their use. That, and they exclusively single-use items that weigh close to two pounds each. A butane lighter gives you many more fires per pound, but with far less fun.

Some folks get to have ALL the fun.

Thermite put onto Green wood & Moist soil/Stones underneath,Could very well,End your attempts to Survive!White phosphorous Grenades,Explode,Period!It would be safer to pull a bullet from the casing,& dump the powder on the tinder,then fire the primer onto it,& That isn't Recommended or safe Either!Strike Anywhere Matches can be safely lit,On a Closed Zipper,You can also use a Knife blade,By Skinning the blade,Atop the Match,Fingernails/Teeth Also work,Just Remember that the Match,More often than Not,Emit Hot magma!All you really have to do is Disturb the white-tip a bit,Even a wet rock will suffice,As long as It's not Dripping wet!When Pulling matches from the box,Look for the Matches with the Most white on the tip,Simple!

You guys are sucking all the fun out of thermite!

I believe I would like to have a thermite matchstick. A whole box of thermite matchsticks.

Entrepreneurs, are you listening?

Remember, you read it here first.

Copyright, sotto, 10-30-10. ;-)

Until the illusive THERMITE MATCHSTICK is invented, you might try the standard CADWELD charges. They are a plastic can with thermite and their own starter powder. They can be found on EBAY or your local welding supply store for ~$3.00/can - usually 10 or 50 tubes per box.

Ponder:

That is truly awesome info, and I'm gonna be searching for a welding supply store as soon as Monday rolls around.

ponder,i did a quick Google on Cadweld.i looks like they need an electric power supply.i'm i missing something here?if i had the room for the power gizmo i could carry a pizo light propane torch.

Sotto,There are 2 supplyhouses in Culver City!

Just in case anyone hasn't caught my drift, for those who follow and may misunderstand, let me make it perfectly clear:

I do Not recommend using Cadweld or any of the flammable/explosive materials mentioned to start fires. Fun to contemplate they are simply too bulky, heavy, and inefficient to routinely carry and potentially too hazardous to used in any situation short of a life threatening need to start a fire, and a complete lack of other alternatives.

If you had them on hand, and there were no other way, you might use them as a last resort. Otherwise everyone is better off limiting their use to trained personnel using them for their intended purpose.

Lighters, matches, ferro rods, the old battery and steel wool trick, sunlight and a lens, even road flares, are safer, and more practical.

Cadwelds have loose thermite when you take off the cap. After you poor it out, there is some flash powder stuck in the bottom. Used properly, this is then poured on top of the mold in the cadweld. It is relative dangerous to light hence the sparker is used.

To use the Cadweld to simply light a fire, I do not open the plastic can. I simply cut a slot in the BOTTOM of the can where the flash powder is stuck. I then slip in a strip of magnesium or cannon fuze to light it. This allows me to get my hand away from the flash powder and back up.

Art: Thank you for the clarification.

Richlacal and Ponder: Thank you for the info.

Both very valuable.

I would like to just add an update. Last night, I ran across a couple old boxes of SA matches in the back of a cupboard. I compared them with the "new and improved" Diamond SA matches I picked up when I started this thread. Indeed, there is significantly more of the white phosphor material on the new matches.

I scraped the white material off an equal number of the old and new matches, and using my expensive laboratory scales, carefully weighed both and compared all the samples. The white material on the new matches weighed significantly more (.05 significance level on a standard statistical t test) on the "new and improved" matches than the old and "unimproved" matches.

NOT! OK, I just eyeballed it with without my reading glasses on. But truly, those old matches wouldn't light for shift, while the ones with the more white phosphor will, as I've said, easily light on any roughish piece of paper (e.g. standard brown paper bag).

i'm sure the match people were down sizing their product the same as the candy bar and cereal makers.
i hope the "new" matches with more on the tip was a result of feedback from people who really use kitchen matches on a everyday basis.

[quote=CANOEDOGS]i'm sure the match people were down sizing their product the same as the candy bar and cereal makers.
i hope the "new" matches with more on the tip was a result of feedback from people who really use kitchen matches on a everyday basis. [/quote

Actually, I rather imagine that a new huge phosphor deposit was just discovered in some 3rd world country and Diamond is just "helping" them with their economy.

that white stuff isn't white phosphorous, which is apparently colourless, and hasn't been used in the USA for 100 years

You are Right,I don't recall anyone Saying Such,Though!White Phosphorous is used in the Military,& Maritime Signal Flares&I'm not 100 yrs.Old!Phosphor is a World different than Willy Peter!Maybe we can get Blast to Re:Explain It,It's in some older threads!