#209323 - 10/08/10 02:08 PM
Recommended Home/Car suture wound closure kit
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Stranger
Registered: 09/18/10
Posts: 13
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Hi all,
What you use at home (in car) for an emergency wound closure/suture kit. I'm looking at the several offered by Adventure medical and wonder if there's another tested/true supplier.
Much appreciated.
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#209327 - 10/08/10 02:45 PM
Re: Recommended Home/Car suture wound closure kit
[Re: Cockroach]
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Old Hand
Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
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Agree - for wounds that may require suturing, pressure to stop or reduce bleeding, sterile dressing, drive to a doctor. In an emergency or when you are far from medical help, steristrips work just fine for smaller wounds - in fact I can recommend the wound closure kit from WMI as a very cost effective ($4) prep for such situations. Usual disclaimers: make sure your first aid training matches up with the care you intend to apply; and I get no benefit from WMI or any vendor, just a happy camper. http://www.nols.edu/store/product.php?productid=16259&cat=256&bestseller
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#209333 - 10/08/10 04:52 PM
Re: Recommended Home/Car suture wound closure kit
[Re: NightHiker]
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Stranger
Registered: 09/18/10
Posts: 13
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Thanks to all for the feedback. I agree, would only use suture in the event that Doctor/ER is unavailable and situation warrants it. I've been in some extreme situations I defer common sense and think through things before acting.
I ordered both the the suture kit and wound closure kit. The wound closure kits appear to be one step above the standard butterfly bandaid-very nice...
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#209335 - 10/08/10 05:09 PM
Re: Recommended Home/Car suture wound closure kit
[Re: paramedicpete]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
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Closing wounds improperly can lead to severe infections. I agree 100%. Don't do it!
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#209336 - 10/08/10 05:19 PM
Re: Recommended Home/Car suture wound closure kit
[Re: Cockroach]
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Old Hand
Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 863
Loc: Southern California
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I don't know if you carry these in your regular FAK, but in light of my recent experience ( http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=208790&gonew=1#UNREAD) I would suggest adding a couple of trauma pads, a roll of gauze, and a roll of waterproof/stretchy tape to your wound care kit. Also, if you're anything like me, adding a chemical cold pack to counter the adrenaline surge to your wound care kit makes patching yourself up easier.
_________________________
Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.
The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane
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#209338 - 10/08/10 06:37 PM
Re: Recommended Home/Car suture wound closure kit
[Re: haertig]
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Stranger
Registered: 09/18/10
Posts: 13
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Closing wounds improperly can lead to severe infections. I agree 100%. Don't do it! Thanks for the comment but it's quite obvious that it shouldn't be done improperly. The original query is based on there being no trained paramedic/emergency rooms available within a reasonable amount of time and needing to close a serious wound. FYI I've attended medic first aid training (Scuba rescue diver cert), us army general first aid, worked in a hospital (5 blocks from WTC during 9-11), so I do have some knowledge/experience and would refer to applicable literature if the need arose. Thanks again
Edited by Cockroach (10/08/10 06:48 PM)
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#209344 - 10/08/10 07:43 PM
Re: Recommended Home/Car suture wound closure kit
[Re: Cockroach]
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Old Hand
Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 778
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
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Instant (Un-Flavored) Mashed Potatoes to stop the Bleeding,Duct tape torn in thin strips to semi'close the wound,Kotex-Maxipad or Israeli Bandage if pressure is needed.This does work in a pinch!I am not a Medic,Nor am I a Physician,tech,or even an Amateur!This is something that worked for me,& I'm here to tell about it! YMMV
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#209347 - 10/08/10 08:48 PM
Re: Recommended Home/Car suture wound closure kit
[Re: Cockroach]
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Newbie
Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 41
Loc: Colorado
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I apologize in advance for the long and probably confusing reply but I tend to ramble on. I hope some of the information is helpful to people.
As a surgical assistant I routinely help close surgical wounds with suture, staples, steri-strips and skin glue. From working closely with surgeons I have an understanding of wound healing issues such as infection and scarring. I also have several years of experience as an EMT I/II and W-EMT.
Closure of a wound is considered to be identifying and attaching together the wound edges for the full thickness and length of the wound.
Packing and dressing (bandaging and dressing) a wound is considered to be using things like gauze sponges (the packing/bandage) in/on the wound and covering them with something like tape or self adhesive wrap (the dressing)
Some things to consider about closing a wound in the field:
Is the wound more than skin deep, is there a possibility that underlying structures such as nerves, blood vessels, tendons etc. involved? Is the bleeding uncontrolled? If any of these are the case, wound closure in the field is a waste of time and could hinder proper medical treatment. Temporary or partial closure, or packing and dressing the wound and transporting the patient to higher medical care might be more appropriate. Deep wounds, i.e. more than full skin thickness should not, and probably can not, be closed in the field.
If the wound is not deep with nothing that requires repair and no uncontrolled bleeding, is the would clean? Was the injury caused by an uncontaminated object to a clean area? If not, do you have the resources to thoroughly clean the wound with lots of water, preferably sterile, and disinfectant? Closing a dirty wound will significantly increase the risk of infection.
If the injury is superficial but more than a simple scrape or nick and field closure is appropriate then what is the goal off the field wound closure? Better wound healing, limiting annoying but trivial bleeding and reducing the risk of infection. Tools that might be used are things like suture, staples, steri-strips and skin glue.
Suture: Requires a cooperative patient, technical proficiency, instruments (needle driver, forceps, scissors), suture (e.g. 3-0/5-0 mono-filament, nonabsorbable), preferably a local anesthetic (e.g. Lidocaine) and a very clean work area. Suture is slow to apply but generally easy to remove and provides good closure to any wound location.
Staples: Requires a skin stapler (and typically a forceps) and a cooperative patient. Staples are relatively quick but not painless and work almost anywhere on the body, but are not typically used on the hands or face. Staples are generally easy to remove and provide a good closure. An additional dressing is typically used.
Steri-strips/butter fly closures: Quick, easy to apply, can be used almost anywhere on the body, and are often used with benzoin or mastisol to aid adhesion. Steri-strips are usually covered with a dressing. Steri-strips can be very difficult and painful to remove. This is particularly important to consider if the closure is only being considered as a temporary measure.
Skin Glue: Medical grade cyanoacrylate (e.g. Dermabond, Indermil) This is a quick, relatively safe and easy to use method of sticking skin edges together. Its likely everyone on the board here has a crazy glue story. This is my preferred method of wound closure at home and in the field. It works anywhere on the body, is easy to use and doesn't require additional dressing.
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#209349 - 10/08/10 09:27 PM
Re: Recommended Home/Car suture wound closure kit
[Re: Cockroach]
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Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3234
Loc: Alberta, Canada
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Excellent responses here, and I'm watching with interest.
Most mesh with what I've been told, i.e., clean the wound if possible, pack it off tightly while maintaining limb circulation, and don't make things worse than they already are.
I'm not an expert, but I assume that the introduction of any non-sterile material into a deep wound is an extremely bad idea.
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#209350 - 10/08/10 10:12 PM
Re: Recommended Home/Car suture wound closure kit
[Re: dougwalkabout]
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Geezer in Chief
Geezer
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
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I'm not an expert, but I assume that the introduction of any non-sterile material into a deep wound is an extremely bad idea.
Depends on your objective. It is a great way to increase medical costs, and possibly, even, support the funeral industry. I have dressed a fair number of wounds in back country settings, and I have never had to suture anything. Zero. Zilch. Nada.
_________________________
Geezer in Chief
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#209352 - 10/08/10 10:26 PM
Re: Recommended Home/Car suture wound closure kit
[Re: Cockroach]
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Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
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Stitching looks really good, but honestly, listen to Pete.
I've had stitches several times. The bleeding had pretty much stopped in most of those. The stitches are mostly to help you heal faster and with fewer long term complications (which includes reopening). I can not think of a situation were I would require stitches where most of us would be functional enough long enough for it to matter.
I'm not a fan of tourniquets, and I like t-quits more than I like stitches. The only things I can think of where I couldn't pack it with celox and gauze then secure with vet wrap and duct tape are massive abodominal injuries, internal injuries, or amputation. In the first, unless you can get evac'ed, you're dead. Internals... again, evac. Amputation, if you can't get it stopped with pressure, then you'll bleed out. All of this assumes shock doesn't get you.
Everything else, you either self evacuate, go into survival mode while your buddies get help, or you try to stay alive, get your signals out and hope that your contact person gets the cavalry rolling. If you want somethign for home/car, unless you are homesteading way back in the boonies, you aren't going to need to stitch. You need to control the bleeding and transport. Period.
If "home and car" also corrisponds with "there is no doctor for hours if not days" you are either very well off the beaten track (in which case, get training, and you'll learn where to look for suture kits- it isn't hard to find), in less than wonderful place to live, or we are talking TEOTWAWKI, in which case, I'd rather bleed out than die from blood poisoning honestly.
_________________________
-IronRaven
When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.
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#209353 - 10/08/10 10:36 PM
Re: Recommended Home/Car suture wound closure kit
[Re: Cockroach]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
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...no trained paramedic/emergency rooms available within a reasonable amount of time and needing to close a serious wound.
You are making a bad assumption here. "...needing to close a serious wound". You don't need to do that. And you should not. But you appear intent on your planned course of action. Just do not expect good results. Be prepared for bad, possibly very very bad results instead. FYI I've attended medic first aid training (Scuba rescue diver cert), us army general first aid, worked in a hospital (5 blocks from WTC during 9-11), ...
No offense intended, but none of these even remotely qualify as training for wound care at the level you are contemplating.
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#209354 - 10/08/10 10:39 PM
Re: Recommended Home/Car suture wound closure kit
[Re: Cockroach]
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Addict
Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 665
Loc: Northwest Florida
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The primary objectives of wound treatment are hemostasis(control of bleeding) and prevention of infection. It is difficult to imagine a scenario, even in a post-disaster or wilderness setting, where suturing would be necessary or advisable, especially without the relevant special training, experience or clinical judgment. Many times, suturing is done for essentially cosmetic reasons. Done inappropriately, it can make a bad situation far worse. Potential complications include infection, nerve damage, loss of function, more severe scarring, sepsis, emboli, or massive tissue loss, amputation and even death.
But, in some situations, having the necessary supplies and equipment on hand, just in case one happens to come across someone who has the skills but not the gear, might be beneficial.
After copious irrigation, most wound margins can be suitably and temporarily approximated or closed with steri-strips and tincture of benzoin. In the field, a baggie filled with clean water, into which some betadine or a couple of betadine swabs have been added, punctured in one corner with a pin, allows suitable pressure irrigation by squeezing the bag.
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#209355 - 10/09/10 12:22 AM
Re: Recommended Home/Car suture wound closure kit
[Re: njs]
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Stranger
Registered: 09/18/10
Posts: 13
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I apologize in advance for the long and probably confusing reply but I tend to ramble on. I hope some of the information is helpful to people.
As a surgical assistant I routinely help close surgical wounds with suture, staples, steri-strips and skin glue. From working closely with surgeons I have an understanding of wound healing issues such as infection and scarring. I also have several years of experience as an EMT I/II and W-EMT.
Closure of a wound is considered to be identifying and attaching together the wound edges for the full thickness and length of the wound.
Packing and dressing (bandaging and dressing) a wound is considered to be using things like gauze sponges (the packing/bandage) in/on the wound and covering them with something like tape or self adhesive wrap (the dressing)
Some things to consider about closing a wound in the field:
Is the wound more than skin deep, is there a possibility that underlying structures such as nerves, blood vessels, tendons etc. involved? Is the bleeding uncontrolled? If any of these are the case, wound closure in the field is a waste of time and could hinder proper medical treatment. Temporary or partial closure, or packing and dressing the wound and transporting the patient to higher medical care might be more appropriate. Deep wounds, i.e. more than full skin thickness should not, and probably can not, be closed in the field.
If the wound is not deep with nothing that requires repair and no uncontrolled bleeding, is the would clean? Was the injury caused by an uncontaminated object to a clean area? If not, do you have the resources to thoroughly clean the wound with lots of water, preferably sterile, and disinfectant? Closing a dirty wound will significantly increase the risk of infection.
If the injury is superficial but more than a simple scrape or nick and field closure is appropriate then what is the goal off the field wound closure? Better wound healing, limiting annoying but trivial bleeding and reducing the risk of infection. Tools that might be used are things like suture, staples, steri-strips and skin glue.
Suture: Requires a cooperative patient, technical proficiency, instruments (needle driver, forceps, scissors), suture (e.g. 3-0/5-0 mono-filament, nonabsorbable), preferably a local anesthetic (e.g. Lidocaine) and a very clean work area. Suture is slow to apply but generally easy to remove and provides good closure to any wound location.
Staples: Requires a skin stapler (and typically a forceps) and a cooperative patient. Staples are relatively quick but not painless and work almost anywhere on the body, but are not typically used on the hands or face. Staples are generally easy to remove and provide a good closure. An additional dressing is typically used.
Steri-strips/butter fly closures: Quick, easy to apply, can be used almost anywhere on the body, and are often used with benzoin or mastisol to aid adhesion. Steri-strips are usually covered with a dressing. Steri-strips can be very difficult and painful to remove. This is particularly important to consider if the closure is only being considered as a temporary measure.
Skin Glue: Medical grade cyanoacrylate (e.g. Dermabond, Indermil) This is a quick, relatively safe and easy to use method of sticking skin edges together. Its likely everyone on the board here has a crazy glue story. This is my preferred method of wound closure at home and in the field. It works anywhere on the body, is easy to use and doesn't require additional dressing. Execllent! Very nice summary of various wound treatments, thank you. I have used CA glue (cyanacrylate) for first aid a thumb wound that was fairly deep. I know several runners that use CA for repair of splitting skin to preclude further injury Overall most of the responses have been informative and helpful and I take all in consideration.
Edited by Cockroach (10/09/10 12:23 AM)
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#209361 - 10/09/10 08:39 AM
Re: Recommended Home/Car suture wound closure kit
[Re: Cockroach]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 295
Loc: New Jersey
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I see IronRaven mentioned Celox. I've added Celox to most of my FAKs, but [fortunately] have never had need to use it. Has anyone used it? How well does it work? When should it not be used? The manufacturer's website talks about using it to stop arterial bleeding -- is this fact or fantasy? After use, how soon thereafter should you get hands-on medical attention?
Thanks.
_________________________
2010 Jeep JKU Rubicon | 35" KM2 & 4" Lift | Skids | Winch | Recovery Gear | More ... '13 Wheeling: 8 Camping: 6 | "The trail was rated 5+ and our rigs were -1" -Evan@LIORClub
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#209363 - 10/09/10 10:00 AM
Re: Recommended Home/Car suture wound closure kit
[Re: Cockroach]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3160
Loc: Big Sky Country
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Celox works very well. Between my work as a chef and my love of the outdoors I get bit quite a bit. Celox works like a charm, as does it's "sister" the Hemcon bandage.
_________________________
“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman
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#209366 - 10/09/10 01:38 PM
Re: Recommended Home/Car suture wound closure kit
[Re: Cockroach]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2208
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
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For the love of your preferred diety, Richlacal, don't put mashed potatoes in a wound. Or pepper. Or really any other granulated substance. That takes forever to get out, doesn't really help anyway, and isn't sterile in the first place.
NJS makes some good points - very succinct description of the various methods to close wounds. But like others have said, should you close a wound???
Routinely I leave wounds open/packed, with daily dressing changes. Some wounds just aren't amenable to "closing 'er up!" Closing these types of wound essentially leave a festering pocket for bacteria to hang out and systemic infection to start. Do you know how to debride a wound, what antibiotics you'll be needing to give if it's relatively deep, what to do if it's a stick versus an animal bite versus a fishing hook? Even if you successfully close your wound, enjoy your tetanus 2 weeks later, or your sepsis since you treated yourself with the wrong antibiotic.
And like NJS said, how deep is it? It's not uncommon to use 2 layers of sutures, or even 3 or more. Do you have the equipment, skill, pain meds and sterility to be digging wrist deep as you repair muscle, tendons, fascia and skin? Do you know which sutures are absorbable, which will cause a wicked reaction by the body, which ones will cause pain as you heal? Even leaving aside the cosmetic aspect, if you're even contemplating needing a second layer of sutures, you're so much better off either A) waiting for real medical help, or B) packing the wound and letting it heal itself.
Wound care isn't just being a seamstress - there's a lot of factors to take into consideration, and a lot of practice needed to get it right. That's why there's Wound Care Centers, innumerous bandage types, lots of different manufacturers of equipment, etc etc etc. You wouldn't make an industry out of something if some thread and a needle would handle the problem.
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#209390 - 10/09/10 08:54 PM
Re: Recommended Home/Car suture wound closure kit
[Re: MDinana]
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Veteran
Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 1474
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So generally, whats the best way to pack a wound and keep it as clean as possible until you can get proper treatment? I always thought it was sterile irrigation and then (sterile) 4X4's?
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#209397 - 10/09/10 11:02 PM
Re: Recommended Home/Car suture wound closure kit
[Re: Cockroach]
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Journeyman
Registered: 09/17/10
Posts: 80
Loc: N.E. Alabama
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I carry a styptic pencil, sterile gauze, Tegaderms and a roll of Coban.
_________________________
"Work like you don't need the money, love like you've never been hurt, and dance like you do when nobody's watching."
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#209401 - 10/10/10 01:41 AM
Re: Recommended Home/Car suture wound closure kit
[Re: LED]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2208
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
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yeah, that's usually OK. The problem is how sterile can you make it? Few wounds are clean. And "copious irrigation" is the name of the game. It's not unusual in the OR to go through 20 liters (that's 5 gallons!) of saline with an abdominal wound or a joint surgery.
Sterile 4x4 or 2x2 are fine, but again, you have to apply them "sterile." Sometimes we'll use iodoform, basically iodine-impregnated gauze. In other words, using sterile gloves and/or foreceps (or cotton-tip applicators, etc) that have been sterilized. And you should sterilze around the wound before you start, since you'll likely brush the gauze against the body as you put it in.
And contrary to some opinions, you don't have to really "pack" it in. I mean, you don't need to fit 50 gauze pads in a wound that's an inch square. The gauze should be put in gently, but when the wound is full, stop. Don't keep smashing gauze in tighter and tighter.
Then cover it with something sterile. Change it daily, or more if it's really pus'ing out. Watch for cellulitis. Depending on the wound, apply bacitracin/neosporin, sometimes silvadene (usually burns though), or just leave the top dry.
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#209445 - 10/10/10 11:00 PM
Re: Recommended Home/Car suture wound closure kit
[Re: MDinana]
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Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3837
Loc: USA
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Depending on the wound, apply bacitracin/neosporin, sometimes silvadene (usually burns though), or just leave the top dry. Would you expand upon this? When should I use topical antibiotics, and when shouldn't I?
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#209478 - 10/11/10 06:26 AM
Re: Recommended Home/Car suture wound closure kit
[Re: LED]
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Old Hand
Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
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Thanks to everyone, this thread has been a joy to read, and it has confirmed my belief that sutures is not high on the list of skills I need to learn So generally, whats the best way to pack a wound and keep it as clean as possible until you can get proper treatment? I always thought it was sterile irrigation and then (sterile) 4X4's? I don't know about "best", I focus on "appropriate", "quick" and "doable" with my skills and equipment and then let the doctors figure out the rest. My plan of action in case someone has a serious wound is this: - improvise a tourniquet if required (rarely needed outside battle zones, but when you need it you really need it). I don't expect it in a wilderness medicine setting. In a traffic accident the likelyhood of needing a tourniquet is probably higher, but still low. - Close the wound as much as you can with your fingers and put whatever gauze / dressing material you have at hand on the wound. I always carry some sterile triangular cloth (multi-use item). If no sterile dressing is found, use the "cleanest available". - Apply pressure. - Wrap it all up with duct tape. Yes, duct tape. I won no scout's badge in bandage wrappings, so I do the best I can with the best I have at hand. No duct tape in the wound or at the skin next to the wound. - Return to civilization. I reserve those butterfly bandages for smaller cuts. Glue? Nope, not for me - I'm not sure I have the "right" kind of super glue for medical use and I don't want to close a wound that may require re-opening.
Edited by MostlyHarmless (10/11/10 06:29 AM)
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