I need fire starters for when I go off piste snowboarding. Currently, my system includes the following:

1. Peanut Lighter packed with waterproof tinder.
2. Ferro rod packed with waterproof tinder.
3. Sparker or another ferro rod packed with waterproof tinder. (I'm leaning toward another ferro rod for this third position.)

I yet have to practice fire starting in freezing conditions up on the mountain. Do any of you have experience that will help me?

for your consideration....as Scouts here in Florida, in the summer rainy season we carried our fuel source with us. Shoe polish cans of paraffin filled corrougated cardboard ( wicks made of a couple layers of concentric loops towards outside lip of can. Carried a 1/4 lb block of paraffin for spare fuel. Easy to extinguish, and later added a braided piece of cotton cordage in center for a candle light...

My favorite in the winter is still cotton balls soaked in petrolium jelly. They light easier than the commercial tinder I have used, and seem to burn longer too.

I'd pack some wetfire in a hard container of some sort.

The PJ saturated cotton balls seem to be the best bang for the buck in cold or wet conditions. A lot of them pack into a small space and you can use 1/3 of one all fluffed up to get damp tinder going in short order, even in soaking wet conditions. As a resident of the Pacific North Wet, I consider myself somewhat of an authority when it comes to starting a fire in wet conditions. The PJ saturated cotton balls take a spark better than the tinder that comes with a Sparklite or any other store bought creation, and they are dirt cheap to make. A trip to the dollar store will give you several years supply for two bucks. Throw in another buck for some sort of durable container and you are golden, although an empty shoe polish tin would be more than adequate

Cotton balls saturated in Coleman White Gas and/or Trioxane/Hexamine lit with a Lifeboat match, firesteel or magnesium bar (although the firesteel won't get the Hexamine to light on its own).

Concur on all counts. In fact just last night I made up a fresh batch of PJ balls. I tested one, lighting it on the first try in breezy conditions with a tiny firesteel, and timed the big flame at over 5 minutes. Only after 5 minutes did the flame diminish much. A key improvement is to put a little "dish" of aluminium foil under the PJ ball. This keeps the liquified PJ on hand for ongoing burning, instead of it dripping into the ground or fire platform.

<drumroll please>

OK everybody, I am going to reveal what may be the most durable, leakproof(ish), accessible, and compact container yet for PJ balls: Nalgene vials. I triple up a long strip of wax paper to make a U-shaped sleeve, stack the PJ balls down into the vial in the sleeve, fold the ends of the sleeve on top then pop on the cap.

The vial's diameter is perfect for the PJ balls, it is as compact as you can get, it keeps leaks at bay in warm weather (so your other gear doesn't get greasy), and you can use the different sized vials for different sized kits. When needed you just pop out a PJ ball as from a Pez dispenser. I use the smallest vial in my mini kits and the biggest one in my belt-mounted kit. Works great.

I recall reading a thread here years back where someone packed PJ cotton balls into a plastic straw. He then heated the ends (carefully) with a lighter and inched them closed. Then did the same in the middle several times. And then he cut into several segments at the pinch location.

This produces 2-3 inch segements of sealed straws. To use you cut open, ull out the cotton and fluff up.

That's really good thinking! I wonder where to find a straw large enough? Cotton balls light about the best of any tinder I've tried. PJ does extend them nicely. Carmex or triple antibiotic are maybe even better- they have PJ as a base and burn just as well yet they have more uses than straight PJ.

I find the Tinder-Quik that comes with the Spark-Lite to be superb tinder as well. It lights almost as easily as a cotton ball but it will burn longer than an uncoated cottonball. They're also easy to put out and reuse.

Whatever you use, it's critical to have good tinder on your. Good luck making maya dust or making shavings that will light under stress in wet conditions. A ferro rod's spark is very hot but it doesn't contain much heat, if that makes sense. Tinder must be very fine and dry.

Any drinking straw will work. The cotton balls compress real well.

Under mountain conditions when it's freezing, sleeting and generally going to hell, you are going to get exactly one chance to get your fire going. Get it wrong and its close to certain that you are going to die.

Ferro Rod, Bunsen Burner "windproof" type butane lighter,and a Zippo.

Pack the Zippo in a ziplock freezer baggie to waterproof it.

Reason you need a zippo is because it's great for putting under a pile of wet tinder.

Your other consideration is tinder. I prefer a mix of Tinder-Quick, cotton wool balls, ranger bands and either wetfire or esbit. I prefer wetfire. Simply because its not toxic in a confined space.
Dont get fixated on using only one type of tinder for your fire. If it's dropped in the pot expect to use, for example, cotton wool balls to catch a spark from your ferro rod and then use the flame from that to ignite something like the wetfire.

If every thing is dripping, be prepared to use the whole lot.

Tinder matches might be nice.
They can be found in many grocery stores and backpak shops.
They are a small compressed sawdust sticks with match material
on one end. You break off one tinder stick and just strike it like a
match, they will burn 6-8 min.

Thank you for the info, everybody. Experimenting with cotton balls with various types of fuels has been an ongoing project, with PJ being the gold standard for the fuel. PJ balls is in my plan for tinder that's waterproof-ish. Another is bike inner tube, and I'm aware it's not really tinder but more so kindling. The straws with the cotton balls will be another project of mine.



Great suggestions, thanks. I have ignored the addition of foil around PJ balls, until now. Regarding the Nalgene vials, I'm not totally getting your explanation. If I just get the materials, will it become clear to me?

EDIT: I think I get it now.

Good info, thanks...Do you have a suggestion for the butane lighter? The one's I've seen are a bit too bulky and delicate looking for an off-piste snowboard trip, but I don't know much about butane lighters...

Jute twine/cord is a great tinder as well. Just unravel the end and pull the fibres apart and it will take a spark very well. You can use the jute to light something else in bad conditions or smear a bit of PJ on the jute. In any decent conditions the jute will light your kindling just fine. It's somewhat water resistant while its woven tightly, too.

In addition to some "high-tech" tinder I like to have a small (or bigger) candle and birch bark with me.
My experience is if its too cold, even the fine thin pieces of the birch bark don't catch the sparks from ferrocerium immediately. But it's excellent tinder if you have bigger pieces too. Quite water resistant, non toxic and reliable.

One tip: when you need to make a fire but your hands are already cold and fingers numb, light a candle with your match/lighter first and then warm your hands above the flame whenever you need while gathering wood and preparing the fire. You might need to make a depression in the snow for the candle in order for the wind not to put it down.

I find both the peanut lighter and the sparker a little difficult to use if my hands are very cold. Instead of the peanut lighter, I like an old fashioned Zippo lighter (of course, fuel it before each trip). The striker wheel is bigger and easier for cold hands than the peanut.

I haven't found anything I like better than PJ-Cotton balls. I add a few strips of inner tube. Once lit from the lighter... or from a sparked PJ-cotton ball... the rubber burns hot and long...when wet! As in when dropped in the snow.

I do have a really good tea light type candle in my Altoids emergency fire tin. I have a disposable lighter and a box of waterproof matches in a small zip-lock bag plus the candle. Then I wrapped the tin in jute cord, secured with a rubber band. Then the whole thing goes into another zip-lock and into a GI surplus compass/1st aid pouch. The jute is a good tinder and the rubber band would be good emergency kindling. I'd like to put a mini firesteel in there too, maybe a small hunk of a hacksaw to strike it, but at the moment I don't have any more of the tiny steels. Guess that will have to go in my next Firesteel.com order.

It's good to hear confirmation about the PJ cotton balls. (I like Murray's Beeswax cotton balls slightly more, but they are only useful as tinder.) For those who don't know, I recommend trying to start fire using a ferro rod and paper. Then, try a PJ cotton ball, huge difference!



So, you know how it is. I suffer from the condition known as "Hands-Get-Cold-Easily". Starting a fire when it's -10F is a skill I will be improving this winter.

It's a challenge to light paper with a ferro rod. You really do have to shred the edges pretty fine to catch a spark, and the first time you try it can be surprisingly difficult. The cottonball, on the other hand, is amazingly easy. Provided it's not compacted tightly the cotton will almost always go up in a large amount of flame on the first strike of the steel. It's amazingly flammable. Tinder-Quik catches almost, but not quite, as easily. Jute catches pretty well but not as effortlessly as cottong (and then only when it's prepared well).

I do a light of fire lighting in the winter with the scouts. I really like my firesteel ferro rod. PJ cotton balls work great as well as does the Tinder Qwik.

I also like to keep birch bark and/or fatwood on hand. Fatwood is really great. Shave off a bit. Light your tinder which lights this bad boy and you should be able to get a fire going pretty quickly! Never had a problem with the cold / snow / wet conditions...

carry a road flare. you will be able to get a fire going, thats for certain.

Somewhere on the forum I remember reading and experimenting with a turning a cotton ball, aluminum foil and PJ into a candle.

Fold a PJ saturated cotton ball into a square piece of aluminum foil pulled from a kitchen roll. Fold it down to a 2" x 2" square with the lump of cotton ball in the middle.

Then back out a few folds and slit the aluminum foil down to the cotton ball at the top of the lump. Then pull a tuff of the cotton ball through the slit.

With a spark, you can light the tuff. It burns like a candle. When you are finished, you fold it back up. Works great.

I agree with Mike H, Fatwood is a good idea.

McDonalds straws are wider than most. Don't ask why I know this.

+100 (or whatever we're up to) on the cotton balls with petroleum jelly. Not only do they catch a spark easier than almost anything else that's quick and easy to deploy, they also burn longer for their size/weight. A little messy to carry and handle, though.

After dousing my cotton balls with petroleum jelly I like to roll them into cylindrical shaped tabs with an outer skin of tissue paper and trim in half. Each cotton ball yields two tabs the same size as a Tinder-Quik and the tissue paper wrapping makes them less messy to deal with. I store them and a Spark-Lite in small hinged-plastic box that originally held fishing sinkers.

I've used them to start a small fire while hiking backcountry in the winter. Either find a rock or make a base of HD aluminum foil or green wood so you're not directly on top of the snow. 1/2 a cotton ball will burn for about 5 minutes, which is more than enough time to get a good fire going.

A 15 minute fuzee isn't very bulky or heavy, is not difficult to ignite with half-frozen hands and will ignite wet wood. We were issued and carried a Mk 13 Mod 0 day night flare as Mountain Warfare (survival) instructors. Great way to get a fire going fast, as well to signal help.

On the topic of unconventional fire starters you could also carry two vials, one with glycerine and one with potassiam permangantate. Mix the two, then stand back and wait for the fireworks.

In my mind, this is the only RIGHT answer so far (edit: just saw Doug_SE_MI's response above..., so there are now two:)). When in an EMERGENCY, you do not want a questionable way to start a fire or one that produces only a soft, delicate flame. I've started fires in the snow for several years, as I'm sure many of you have, but it is my experience that the easiest, surest, quickest way to get it going is to use a road flare. It only takes about 6" of the flare to get the selected wood going, so you can cut/break it off at about the length of a mini-mag flashlight, plug/close the end and wrap it up somehow (it is covered in wax). I carried two like that for years on SAR.

In CA, CHP will replace the road flares you needed to use for an emergency roadside event. The next time you see one who is not on a call and is in a safe area, tell him what you are doing and see if he can help in an emergency that hasn't happened yet:).

Caltrans also can contribute, if they are in a generous mood, with one or two of those 4 mil. orange plastic garbage bags. Those are great for your kit.

Of course, there is no substitution for practicing the skills you may need one day. Whatever you choose to carry, practice, practice, practice...

Where's a good place to purchase the type of flares mentioned here? I've never actually purchased a flare.

Where to by road flares.

Try an automotive supply or the automotive department in your local big box. Some well stocked hardware stores will have them too.

Some auto "emergency kits" come with flares too.

Police, fire, railroad expend them by the case. I got some from my late father-in-law who got a case through railroad connections.

Signal flares sold in boating supply stores or outdoor will work to.

Remember, they work for their designed purpose, signaling, in an emergency too.

Dumb question time:

Wasn't there a discussion about road flares a couple of years ago, stating (with some authority) that the off-the-shelf road flare was an utterly lousy firestarter?

Anybody actually tried this? Just askin', for scientific purposes.

I am no scientist, but I have heard that flares and explosives contain carcinogenic chemicals called perchlorates which are water-soluable. I would think that the flare would have to be sealed well to avoid spreading the chemicals around inside your pack. In non-scientific terms the smoke is 'nasty' too. Nothing beats PJ and cotton balls.

So how heavy is the sealed metal box that is required to carry around the explosives that constitute a flare? I certainly wouldn't want to carry around any flares in my back pocket.

I've used a road flare,to start a fire...Once! Conditions have to be correct,Such as wind or Lack of wind,wind direction or lack of wind direction,In otherwords, Make sure wherever you'd like to start that fire,There is Plenty of Ventilation for the smoke of the flare,& The resulting fire, should you leave the flare,Fireside!Also keep in mind the Fiery,Molten Sulphur slag that's produced Copiously from the flare.If any of you played with burning Hot Wheels track,as a kid,It's just like that except 7-fold the intensity!Brimstone Stinks!If you use a flare,then snuff it out,It will be a Bear to re-light,plus where do you plan on storing that 1/2 burnt Stogie of Brimstone?It will make everything smell like that 3 letter word,Often used in place of Donkey!Fatwood is the answer!It smells good when it's Not burning,It smells good when it's 1/2 burnt,It's easy to re-light,& It doesn't look like a stick of Dynamite!A little goes a Long way,& you can carry a little or alot,a Long way! Fatwood last's forever,Flares expire,& become hazardous with age,But if that is what you have with you,It will Suffice!

Nothing special is needed. I've tested all sorts of methods when it's -20 out and my firesteel can reliably start fire with all sorts of tinders, chemical tab, fatwood, or just regular wood shavings.

Have you read this by Jack London?

To Build a Fire

That's why I recommended a Zippo

Because you can do this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3_OnFDf6VM

Useful trick if you have frozen or damaged hands.

Flare or not? Depends on what you want/need...

NOT - I'm winter camping and want a nice cozy fire to sit by.

Definitely - I've fallen through the ice, gotten soaked, the only fuel at hand is snow covered and icy, and I need a fire before hypothermia stops me from doing anything. I don't care about odor, carcinogenic chemicals, etc. I just need fire fast.

As a military mountain survival instructor, I wasn't carrying a flare to light the fire to melt my C-ration (only peaches and applesauce were edible frozen). I was carrying it for a dire emergency.

For non-emergencies I've relied on strike anywhere matches, carried in a match safe, and lots of tender (usually pine needles) for over 40 years.

As far as using a road flare to start a fire, well, one just needs to watch their local fire department light a training fire...

The idea for me is that I'll have at least 3 fire starters. They will be attached to my person (e.g., jacket pocket, not an external pack). The fire starters will be in different pockets around my body. For those who have been snowboarding/skiing long enough, you know how anything inside a pocket can disappear magically if you merely open that pocket. So, I will NOT be keeping all the fire starters attached together in one pocket. The fire starters on my person should be reasonably small.

There are many good ideas here. For the sake of brevity, I'll focus on the negatives.

A Zippo generally works well, but it worries me. It leaks. In the high altitude, it will probably leak faster. Also, I don't understand the purpose of the one-handed trick for the situation at hand. I'll plan for everything on me to be wet. The trick would require rubbing rubbing the head unit on something wet. I would definitely want to avoid doing that. I don't see the point anyway if I can use my finger one handed.

Flares may be the nuclear bomb of starting fires, but the negatives may outweigh the positives. Size matters for the situation at hand. In the space of the flare, I can have at least 3 other fire starters plus tender instead of the flare. Keep in mind that I'll also be snowboarding and having fun. I'm NOT on a search-and-rescue mission, and NOT everything on me is dedicated for survival. Also, the flare is a one-time deal, too messy with the chemicals to keep with me after one light. That leads us to the problem of the chemicals leaking and getting all over my other gear. If I have an external pack, I can imagine packing a flare inside there, maybe.

As I recall, nobody has argued too much for waterproof matches. That's OK. My confidence in matches is so low that I don't even bother including matches in my regular survival kit.

So, based on your activity and restrictions for what you are carrying, then traditional fire starters seem the way to go.

Lighters (zippo / butane) certainly have issues at altitude and temps.

Matches tend to be unreliable as well, but may have uses.

Firesteels (fero rods) and spark lighters do well in any temp / alt. The key is dry tinder and shielding that tinder from the elements.

As stated before, a nice piece of fatwood will do wonders for you once you get the tinder lit and you want to step up into getting available wood to light. You can get fatwood wet and still be able to scrape off useful bits for a fire. It is easy to carry as well.

Getting a piece of tinder lit is easy. Building a functional fire is trickier, esp in winter / wet conditions.

The best advice, go out in a not survival situation, dress warm, and practice practice practice. Go out just after a rainstorm. Go out in winter where everything is covered in snow. Try using only one hand while building a fire. If you can get a fire going in those conditions, you'll be more prepared in case something does happen to you while snowboarding.

Like Doug_SE_MI I have relied on strike anywhere matches in a good matchbox in wild places all over the world for 50 years. Although many consider them unreliable, Even in real emergencies I have never NEEDED anything else (I have used lots of other methods). I have upgraded my emergency match case (the everyday one still carries strike anywhere) to REI StormProof matches with a striker. I back these up with the stuff in my AMK/Ritter pocket kit and some extra tinder quick (PJ cotton balls are slightly better, but often a mess). Usually a cerro rod somewhere. The key addition, for all these lighting methods I carry some kindling - 4 inch squares of t-shirt dipped in paraffin. Can be lit with a match when wet in pretty wild weather and several minutes of hot flame. Like a candle on steroids, but LOTS easier to carry. A couple of them in a plastic bag fit flat in a pocket or pack.

The best,

Jerry

PS the flare is often there for other reasons but is a GREAT starter. Don't put it back, use it all up (or shorten it as described above). The metal cased survival flares are much better than the railroad (automotive) type.

The best fire starter I ever carried was a carbide lamp - heat and illumination on one handy package. Unfortunately, they are now realistically obsolete. In critical situations, strike anywhere matches have worked fine for me over decades. The secret is to have, or collect, adequate tender and small stuff.

A small piece of surgical tubing is a huge benefit in coaxing flames. The tubing is also multi-use. We used the tubing in our bolt kit (rock climbing) to start fires and also collect water from inaccessible crevices.

I wouldn't rely on that in cold weather.

It's worth considering cotton balls impregnated with candle wax rather than petroleum jelly. Use wax from good quality candles, not cheap tea-lights. Wax is less messy than jelly.

Whatever you carry, make sure you can make it work when wearing gloves. It's good to have a one-handed solution, too. If you are snowboarding of piste and get into difficulties, it's quite likely to be because you got injured. Hopefully you won't be alone, so it's worth having something that whoever is with you can use. I'm not a fan of Zippo usually, but it seems to fit the bill here.

Why?
What do you consider a good quality candle?
I don't think it will make a difference.



I'd say that wax is more solid than jelly, and jelly is more sticky than wax, but the messiness is entirely dependent upon storage/handling. If you keep the jelly/cotton balls contained (bag, vial), and you fish them out using your kindling (twig, paper), your hands will remain jelly free.

My solution to the sticky petroleum jelly cotton balls is cling film or whatever the rolls of plastic film you use on leftover food in the fridge is called (the thin plastic will stick ("cling") to most dry surfaces, included itself). Just roll the PJ cotton balls in cling film, then stick the roll into whatever container you're using.


In really high temperatures I would expect some petroleum jelly to become liquid and make its way out of the cling film roll, but really high temperatures is not a problem where I live.

If your cotton ball/vaseline combo is messy, you are using too much vaseline.

In fact, I've found too much vaseline is actually quite a bad thing, as it can make it difficult to for the cotton to catch a spark.

I would suggest a road flare. Okay it is one shout but when you need fire you need fire.
cheers

My experience too with first attempts, years ago ... massaged unheated PJ into cotton balls but found difficult to remove excess PJ.

Current method: heat golf ball-size chunk of PJ in microwave at half-power 30 seconds or so until liquid; submerge cotton balls, then squeeze one-at-a-time in garlic press to remove excess PJ. Good saturation; not messy; finished cotton balls nicely compressed; easy ignition with ferro rod (after 'fluffing' to expose fibers); good burn time.

And my third-level firestarting method/gear: windproof/waterproof matches. But only REI and UCO Stormproof. For their size, I've found nothing that has the same "explosive ignition" sometimes required for less-than-optimum tinder/conditions. They're like mini-road flares. I know the arguments against: once they're used/gone, they're gone; and they require a special striker. I don't sweat the striker-issue ... carry plenty of "waterproofed" spares not only with other gear, but on my person. Consider the dozen or so matches I carry to be adequate third-tier back-up.

I don't suffer from this but once on a night winter trip I wore insufficient gloves. Already during the wood gathering phase my hands became pretty cold so I lit a candle and warmed them every now and then until I got the fire going. It helped a lot.


I also agree with others about the fatwood. It is a great option. I did some tests with "Maya sticks" including water resistence test and they worked very well.
I recommend preparing the various forms and sizes of fatwood in advance. 1. No preparation and no wasted time when you need the fire ASAP 2.Having a big piece of wood in your pocket could hurt more than ziplock bag full of kindling chips when you fall during snowboarding.

Just for illustration - some of my pre-made tinder/kindling:

I used to carry a lot of pre-prepared tinder and stuff around, then I learned a trick that made a lot of sense to me.

When going for a walk/hike, I'll stop and grab whatever tinder and occasionally potential food items I might come across as I'm going on my way. From there I'll stuff them in one of the pockets of my jacket (or occasionally the back pocket of my pants). After a while, I end up with a ready made birds nest of stuff in my pocket, perfect for getting a fire going.

It's a lot easier than searching for the stuff when it comes time to build a fire and, after doing it for a few years, you get in the habit of grabbing the stuff without thinking. Plus it means I'm not filling up my bag with as much extra dead weight. Nature actually tends to do a nice job of providing for us, if we know what to look for.

The other good thing about it is that you essentially train your eye to pick up on certain materials out in the wilderness. You start to notice things that others may miss. You start to keep a mental log of what's around you and what you can make use of.

That's a good idea about picking up tinder. However, for the problem here (snowboarding off piste), I won't be doing that.

I like the idea of the pre-made fat wood. I've never used fat wood. I think I'll buy some to put in a plastic bag in a jacket pocket.

I'm putting together a survival kit that will go around my neck. I'll post a pic when I'm satisfied with the combination of gear.

Live near any pine forests? Just find a suitably decomposed log with intact, very pitchy knots (before the snow flies). That's free fatwood - very effective, almost explosive in starting a fire.

I must have crappy microwave. 4 minutes and no melty melty!

My zoomy-wagon is 1000 watts and it takes over 4 minutes to melt PJ in mine, too. Maybe we're using too much PJ?

Different candles use different kinds of wax. Cheap tea-lights are made to be, well, cheap. I wouldn't rely on one in a life-and-death situation. A "kitchen candle" will put out three or four times as much light. It'll have a strong, hot flame.


I'd say that wax is more solid than jelly, and jelly is more sticky than wax, but the messiness is entirely dependent upon storage/handling. If you keep the jelly/cotton balls contained (bag, vial), and you fish them out using your kindling (twig, paper), your hands will remain jelly free. [/quote]The messiness can be managed, but it's still messy. Why bother? What benefit does jelly have over wax?

I just use an old coffee can on the stove top. Takes very little heat to melt the stuff. Don't heat it too much. Just enough to melt it.

I appreciate your tip about wax. However, since you asked, Vaseline does have some advantages:
-It can be used for other things, for example, first aid, temporary relief of chap lips, etc.
-It can be applied to cotton balls without heating and while you're out there.
-It allows you to keep your cotton balls dry until you want to apply Vaseline. The cotton balls may then be used for other things, like first aid.

I personally am not irritated by the so-called messiness of Vaseline. If I have a little extra on my fingers, I rub the extra on dry patches of skin. It comes off well enough and soothes the dry skin. Also, I have yet to test the wax side-by-side Vaseline. If wax is a better fuel, then I will make it my primary.

I'm not sure the quality of the wax makes much difference. I've used the wax from very cheap tea lights and somewhat more expensive ones and never notices any differences. Sure, as actual candles it makes a big difference, but I attribute that mostly to the wicks being very thin and poorly situated and attached. I've timed cottonballs dipped in cheap wax as burning very strongly for over 9 minutes before they start to really drop off. Maybe I'll repeat my tests with more expensive candles but I'm not sure what difference I could expect. Better may the notion of mixing 1 part PJ to 2 or 3 parts wax.

I'm a big fan of the Blastmatch and his little brother Sparkie. Both are ferro rods with built in sparking strips. What sets them apart is that they are used one handed so you can still use them if you've got an injury to an arm.

Can't say enough about the cotton ball and petroleum jelly tinder. Like the idea about the aluminum square, I'm going to try that.

I also carry a clear Bic type lighter (without childproofing), lifeboat matches in an orange waterproof case, and a magnesium/ferro rod bar. Guess I just like to make sure I'm going to get that fire started. However, since getting it, I've never needed anything other than the Blastmatch and PJ cotton ball.

I love my Sparkie although he and his big brother are not needed for one handed fire starting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6ql8yt_wHo

Here is one-handed fire starting with a ferro rod:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l10DV95HA1I

Thanks; I've updated my post with the url of the video I originally intended to post.

Nice! I never thought of that. Training and skills are so important.

Having lit fires at temperatures well below -40c two things I always try to carry for really cold fire lighting is 'Fire Paste' and good tinder.

Here's my neck pouch for when I go snowboarding:

-Orange 550 paracord
-Black pouch
-Scraper
-Ferro rod
-Peanut lighter
-Waterproof tinder case
-Fox 40 Sharx whistle
-Fauxton

Very nice- I like it.

I see no reason to put myself in a position where one "fumble" = death? Why not have a suitable bivy and sleeping gear with you? If there's a lot of wind and no other shelter within reach, it may be a lot better to just "hole up" until the rain or snow stops, rather than waste time and body heat trying to start a fire, don't you think? Fire doesn't count for much unless you have a pile of fuel, shelter from the wind, and some sort of reflector. Otherwise, to stay warm, you have to build and maintain 3 fires, and sack out in the middle of the 3. so it's best by far to get to some sort of windbreak, preferably one that shields you from rain/snow, and which has fuel not too far away, before bothering to light a fire.

I didn't think of that. I'll certainly consider bringing both. You're not saying I should leave behind my small fire starter kit, are you?

While I couldn't see carrying a complete winter bivvy/bedding setup while snowboarding. I would at least be carrying a Heatsheets Emergency Bivvy.

I mean, the clothing snowboarders typically wear provides a lot of insulation and protection versus, say, a pair of jeans. This is already a huge advantage in making a night outdoors survivable vs someone wearing lighter and less weather resistant clothing.

Between the clothing, the bivvy helping to provide some additional insulation and wetness protection, and some pine boughs below and above providing additional insulation I wouldn't doubt it could keep a person alive down to some surprising temperatures. Comfortable, no, but still alive.

With that said, finding/building a proper shelter and building a fire is always going to be your best bet. Even with a good winter bivvy setup, you are still relying on your core heat to keep you warm and alive. This is kind of a loosing battle, as you aren't adding any additional heat beyond what your body can make. Since you probably aren't eating much, if anything, your body is going to have a tough time keeping your core temperature up. Therefore, you are going to have a tough time staying warm.

What makes a fire so important is that it adds heat beyond what your body can provide. Even if you don't have windbreaks/reflectors (which aren't really that hard to make, I mean your snowboard could work as a reflector) a fire can still provide some additional warmth. It also has a secondary psychological benefit, as it gives you something to focus your attention too. Otherwise, you pretty much just dwelling on how cold and probably hungry you are, and if you're out at night...how dark and spooky it is.

Besides that, fire has the potential added benefits of being a signal and a helpful deterrent if any animals come around thinking you might make a good meal.

Sorry, I admit to not reading this whole post. I may even be posting the same thing myself twice. At any rate, I saw a vid (maybe youtube) once where an experienced backcountry snowmobiler in some serious wilderness area was demonstrating his "last ditch" a_s-saving emergency fire-starting protocol. He was on a "frozen-over" river, and intentionally drove his snowmobile into one of those areas covered by snow where the river ice had cracked and liquid water had come through forming a large puddle just under the snow. His snowmobile got caught in the slush and he found himself seriously wet and cold from the dunking.

His a_s saving firekit was:

a roll of toilet paper in a plastic bag, a can of lighter fluid, a pile of sticks, and a sparking tool.

He squirted the lighter fluid on some of the toilet paper, and had it blazing away in seconds. He piled some sticks on top of this and stripped down in front of the fire and had his wet clothes drying out in just a couple minutes. I found this to be a very impressive demo.

Awesome, that gives me more confidence with starting a fire by using my current kit (updated from my pics above).

No matter what method used to start the fire, the trick is to have plenty of wood already gathered to get it going and often times nurse it along until it's burning hot. Getting a fire going in wet conditions takes some doing at the best. Finding dry wood to get it going is the ticket.

No Matter even if a Forest Fire,Short of a Firestorm,Wet Clothes take a BIT more than a Couple a'Minutes to dry,Unless...You happen to be Ken,Of Ken/Barbie Fame!

+1 on the road flare over and above your usual fire starting equipment.

Very true. I had a helluva time getting that thru my brother's thick head, though. We went camping last weekend, and due to p!ss poor planning (mostly on his part) we didn't get to camp until a half hour before sundown. That annoyed me since I like to take my time with fire prep, batonning wood down til I have a pretty big pile of kindling. Normally I sort the wood into three piles- kindling, small fuel and large fuel. To me kindling is wood between the size of a pencil and the size of your thumb. Small fuel is wood split down to the dry center and no larger than your wrist. Large fuel is anything that will burn but larger than that, maybe split once. At any rate, I didn't have time to split a ton of wood, but I had enough to get the fire going. I built an platform for an upside down fire and placed a cotton ball under the kindling. The wood was simply not as dry as I'd have liked so things were taking a while to get really going. But my brother sees flame and starts heaping wood on it. I try to explain that fire needs air as well as fuel but he's convinced it will be fine. Long story short, I ended up having to "rescue" the fire with a little bundle of fatwood I'd brought along to try out but forgotten to use (until that point). I think he learned a lot about fire that evening. Next time he'll know enough to let the fire reach that critical mass before adding large fuel.

BTW, if any of you live in areas of prolonged drought, for a nominal fee I will come to your area and set up my camp- I guarantee the rains will began to fall within two hours. Every time I've gone out this year it's rained on me. Luckily it didn't rain hard, and even luckier for my brother I made sure to have two rain ponchos. He only had a sub sandwich, a box of wine and his laptop. Yeah, his laptop.

The system below will be going in my jacket pocket when I go playing in the snow. It may seem bulky at first, but it's relatively small given its advantages. I'll be downsizing my neck kit that I posted earlier.

Everything written here about lighterd (fatwood) is true!

And the 'trick' birthday candles are a nice addition to that last kit.

I use (old-fashioned) paper egg cartons to make 'firestarter cupcakes',as my GrandKids call 'em.
To an empty egg carton,cut lid off & discard.To each of the 12 'egg spaces',add one PJ'd cotton ball,dryer lint if you saved some,some splinters & chips of lighterd,and a couple short pieces of jute hanging over the edge.Stick one longer splinter of lighterd up over the edge also.
Then melt paraffin in a double boiler-carefully! as paraffin is flammable!- until liquid; pour into each of the 12 spaces until the space is mostly full.
After these cool,cut out the 12 firestarters.
Before use,wrap the jute around the longest piece of lighterd (left sticking out) and light this as a wick.
The paraffin will saturate the egg carton paper (cardboard?!?) and these will be basically waterproof.
One of these,and 6 pieces of lighterd the size of pencils,will coax even damp kindling into a fire.
And most any method will light these...matches,ferro rod,lighter.

~Gnarly

I am browsing zippo.com website right now and see they have some interesting looking natural tinder - cedar pucks. http://www.zippo.com/Products/zippo-fire-starters.aspx (at the bottom of the page)
(I don't work for them, just wanted to share the find.)

I like it irecokn! I was adding a few thing for a trip today when the blower motor for our interior fan blew. We skipped the trip to make the repair and I've added belts and systems checks to our winter prep list for next year. If that fan had blow midway, I would have been happy to have your kit on-board. It's more compact than mine and looks just as efficient!

Is there a way to prevent a Zippo from drying out, or do you just have to refill it before every outing?

I have my Dad's old Zippo lighter - I found it among his things after he died and asked Mum if I could keep it - but have never really used it for anything.

Would vacuum sealing it work, or would the fuel just evaporate anyway?

I would try putting some Zippo lighter fluid,Very small amount in a Zip Lok bag,& Leave it for a Few days,constantly checking it,to see if it eats the bag or dissipates Rapidly! Probably Best to place it outside,in a Safe/Dry area.Zippo's leak,regardless of how/where they are carried,But they are Very Effective for their intended Purpose's! Good luck!

If I were absolutely determined to use a zippo lighter in a survival kit, I would probably keep it stored dry with a small can (I know 4 oz. cans are available) of zippo lighter fluid stored with it. Which would probably take up the space of three or four butane disposable lighters. Tim

That's very nice kit, ireckon. I like how it's built around that big candle. It should definitely buy you some time.

It might be worth a try to stage a snowboarding mishap under safe controlled conditions and put it to test.

I tested the kit in Tahoe at a ski resort two weeks ago when it was raining and somewhat windy, with snow on ground. Raining conditions is more of a challenge than snowing conditions in my experience. I was able to light the candle by using a Bic and a windshield made from my hands and jacket. I have heard that butane lighters (not Bics) have problems at high altitude. In contrast, I had no problem lighting a plain Bic at high altitude, but note that lighting a Bic in a wind is difficult.

I did not try to light the cotton balls, inner tube or trick candles. I figured those would be no more difficult than the candle. I also did not try to light a fire by using the ferro rod. Hey, I was mainly out there just to have some fun in the snow. I'll try the ferro rod next time. Maybe it will be easier than the Bic. Who knows?