MoBOB: "I take small issue with the statement about the kids joining the military so that they can have another mommy... What happens with many is that they find a sense of purpose to being part of something larger than themselves."

And here I thought it was because they couldn't even find a job at a burger joint, and Mom and Dad refused to support them anymore!

Over half the rail crews I haul around are ex-military, maybe even closer to three-quarters. I asked why that was, and the answer I get repeatedly is... "Because we've been taught to take orders and do as we're told".

Okay, you're military -- do you know what the modern word for "cannon fodder" is? I've asked my guys, and they don't know, they said they think it is still the phrase in use. Any idea?

Sue

If kids today are nincompoops it shouldn't be a mystery- look at their idiot parents. You've got a lot of people today that think Glen Beck is a scientist, evolution is a myth and global warming is an "industry." What's next, digging up Galileo and burning his bones? Forget the kids- the adults of today might be the dumbest, most ignorant generation to ever blight our planet.

A good term to replace nincompoops - which is a slang for Non-Commissioned Officer (Sergeant) is from one of the latest GEICO commercials; jackwagon. I had never heard that term in my life but I knew exactly what he was saying and meaning. I nearly fell out of chair every time I heard it.

You may now return to your regularly scheduled topic.

My $.02

I don't necessarily agree that the adults are "most ignorant generation [...] ever" ... unless I'm forced to listen to talk radio.

I will say the adults have largely failed the younger generations.

Henry Ford's job specialization and automation have largely removed training from the employment experience. Back in the 60s working at a burger shop came with training. There were skills associated with manually operating a fryer, a grill, running the cash register. Now the skills are gone. The fryer and grill are self regulating and all you have to manage are a few very basic operations. The machinery takes out all the judgment and skill. Used to be the cashier made little more every hour because they were handling money, making change, maintaining a drawer. Now it is all automated. You don't even have to know how to make change. The machine figures it all about and dispenses the proper change.

A kid can work at Micky-Ds for years and leave with no added skill. The company doesn't invest in their worker. And in return the kids know they are replaceable. Their lack of dedication and loyalty is, IMHO, largely a result of this.

Even major corporations have shifted away from investing in their employees. I worked for one where everybody in HR was an 'independent contractor'. They had no benefits and could be fired at will. They produce and shuffled a lot of paper to look productive but about 90% of it was CYA, responsibility shifting, useless. Actual productivity was poor.

Parents have stopped coaching and counseling their kids. Not entirely surprising or entirely their fault. When you work 80 hours a week in a dirt job, with no benefits, it is hard to muster the energy to fit in the necessary 'quality time'. So much of the parenting and training end up coming from school and TV.

Parents are often too busy. Stretched too thin. They don't have time to read, so they don't have newspapers, magazines, books around the house. And if the kids don't see their parents reading, and aren't exposed to books, they don't pick up the habit. Most of those kids will find school much more difficult.

People blame the schools but they have the kids for only thirty hours a week, about 18% of the time. And the amount of information they are required to teach has increased every year. Sex education is necessary, but so is health, and hygiene, and avoidance of sexual abuse, and fire drills, and standardized testing and ... You get the idea. It wasn't a grand plot to undermine democracy that killed civics classes. It was the time it takes to teach increasingly lengthy and complex core courses to all comers as required by law. Public schools have to provide an education to kids with every disability and deficit.

If a kid shows up speaking only Swahili the school has to provide lessons in Swahili. If the kid is dyslexic the special trainers have to be provided. If the child is emotionally unstable; common for FAS, children of drug addicted parents, general child neglect; the school has to accommodate it. Unlike charter schools, which can always find a handy way to exclude the kids who will be too expensive to educate, the public schools have to teach every child that shows up. Special needs kids take up more of a teacher's time.

Because of all this, and other requirements, busing isn't free, money is always short. There aren't enough teachers. Schoolhouses deteriorate as budgets are cut in poor districts.

The popular thing to do is to blame the teachers, and their unions, but most teachers work 12 and 16 hour days, pay for basic classroom supplies (stuff kids used to bring with them) out of their own pockets, get blamed for problems that often start at home, and regularly get threatened and abused when they try to get involved.

I've met a teacher who was a cop. After retiring he became a teacher. He says his second career is the harder one. With longer hours and more danger. His pay is less and if it wasn't for his retirement pay and health benefits, holdovers from his police days, he couldn't afford to be a teacher.

Kids need coaches and mentors and they aren't getting them. They need people who will train them for and at work. Given the general level of neglect and the constant need to bootstrap themselves through the troubles of childhood it is a wonder that they have done as well as they have.

Fixed a couple of spelling/structure errors. Added a couple of sentences to clarify points.

I don't disagree with you at all, Art. I merely want to point out that these kids aren't just stupid and worthless in a vacuum; we can't say "Gee, how did that happen?" And like most issues, the solutions are elusive, and no quick fixes are in evidence. Yes, my generation and the ones that came before have failed our children and we've failed ourselves. Unfortunately I expect the burden will fall disproportionally on them. Especially since we seem to collectively lack the will and wisdom to even attempt to fix things.

Could we clarify who we're speaking of? Is it all of us born after, say, 1985 or 1990 that have no work ethic and are universally lazy and ignorant?

I can think of many people both younger and older than I who suffer from the same issues so I don't think its just a generational thing.
The other side of the schooling coin is since I've taught my kids well at home they are bored in school due to haveing to learn and the pace of the slowest in the class. I went to college with others who suffered from the same fate, got terrible grades in school due to boredom, they were very smart, one guy was doing everything from pirating software to building tesla coils to pipe bombs, but would get bad grades in programmins, electronics or chemistry classes. As we try to make everyone conform to the same standard and learn at the same pace your going to have that problem.
And now there is so much political crap shoved into the schools, like someone mentioned above, the theory of evolution is no loger taught as a theory, even though it can't be proven, its taught as fact so ow our kids learn "facts" without basis, reasoning or proof and start to blindly believe anything taught without question.

Sorry to disagree but I believe in personal responsibility, not blaming others including parents, schools, friends, etc. for the failing of the individual. There are just too many opportunities available to blame others. There are kids who come from the worst families, poorest schools, crime-ridden neighborhoods and are subjected to intense negative peer pressure, who arise and decide to make something of themselves. Our military is full of well trained, disciplined and intelligent young persons, many of which came from the above conditions and who by many were written off as nincompoops.

Yes, many of every generation fail to take advantage of the opportunities and succumb to the “easy way” only later to be held accountable by some event in their life. We all (the generic all) have life a little easier than generations before, due to their sacrifices and desire to impart a better life for future generations. Do I disagree that there are parents out there who do a disservice to their children by pampering and babying their children, of course not, there are many, perhaps too many. However, there are just as many parents who are trying to do the right thing and still have children who refuse to accept their responsibility to be self-reliant and productive individuals.

Just my 2 cents-
Pete

I am just curious - what did our parents and grandparents think of the current generations of adults? Would/are they questioning our work ethic, our habits, our priorities in life?
They went through the depression and 2 world wars and heavy changes to industrialization of society, things that most of us never experienced. Do we save for a rainy day like they did?

My point is - be careful about how you rag on the younger generations and over generalization about an entire generation based on limited personal experience. It can be a matter of perspective as well as a matter of reality that the younger generations are less capable in some ways.