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#208574 - 09/25/10 05:30 PM Survival Tip that worked for me (from experience)
NIM Offline
Member

Registered: 02/12/03
Posts: 128
Hi,

Thought I'd fire off a few things/thoughts that I've come across that helped me. Product recommendations are things that have worked for me I have no affiliation to them. This post is long as I haven't gotten online in some time due to my newborn. Might be a bit rambling as I'm running on 4 hours sleep (per night for the last 3 weeks).

#1 Long term food caches don't have to be super high end. While I prefer to store caches properly (mylar,o2 absorber etc) I did a test run of a VERY lame cache. I simply grabbed a 4 liter plastic container (PETE) and poured in half a bag of dry white rice, a cheap high carbon knife and filled the rest with instant mashed potatoes (with butter added). I couldn't find any butter free mashed potatoes. I put 2-3 layers of plastic wrap over the mouth of the container (as a gasket) and screwed on the lid. I then hiked into a very remote area in Northern Ontario and 'buried' the container in about 2 inches of dirt and placed a pillow size boulder on it.

I then waited 2 years. I picked it up this summer and learned the following. First, my memory isn't as great as it used to be. One should REALLY document where the cache is. I wasted an hour going up and down a cliff trying to remember where I put the cache. I found the rock and lifted it. To my suprise the package was still there. The package was incased in the middle of an ant colony but untouched by bears (bear country) mice etc. I've eaten the entire contents and it tastes just like it did before I buried it. There was NO water damage and NO insect infiltration past the 'gasket' I made. Considering the plastic container would only provide so much protection from the smell of food I was very pleased it had survived. The plastic container is still in top shape although the plastic wrap exposed to the elements decayed. The gasket portion was still in great shape though. I suspect another 3-5 years MAY compromise the gasket. Next year I'll start the 5 year test with the same setup. The instant mashed potatoes are fantastic as you can just add the mix to cold water (they don't require heat or a campfire). I store them in all caches that are enroute to a further location. You can toss the powder into a cup and drink it as you hike.


#1.4 Canned goods keep impossibly well. I took about 30 assorted cans and placed them in a sealed metal box (moisture proof). I literally set the box in a remote northern forest and waited 10 years. They were subjected to 30+ Celsius summer days and -40 winter days. Only 4 cans were dented from this treatment. I've eaten the other cans without any problems (a bit silly to do but I was curious and this was last year before I was a father). I was totally stunned that they tasted as good as normal. Perhaps the peas had a bit of flavor loss. I can't believe the cans made it through the winters without popping. Pop cans don't fair well at all. I tested a case once and only 2 cans lasted through the first winter (and they were totally mangled).

#1.5 Don't be lazy. It is easy to cache. Go out and bury some supplies in the event you have to flee. It doesn't have to be costly, deep or super awesome to survive the journey through time. Fill a dry pop bottle with rice and bury it feebly. It will be there waiting for your rainy day. Don't let the idea that you have to have a MASSIVE, expensive super well prepared cache. I've seen and heard of numerous primitive caches that survived thousands of years! One was corn wrapped tightly in a vine (like a silo). One of the coolest was a dig that found tobacco seeds that were thousands of years old (can't recall the exact age of them at the moment). Some of the archeologists planted the seeds and the tobacco grew! I snagged some seeds from the second generation and grew them myself to produce a new viable crop of seeds. I throw a pinch of the seeds in small envelopes and put them into each of my caches. Not for any spiritual reason, but because that little plant survived for thousands of years and I'd love to let it survive still more. Fooey, I wish I could remember how old they were. Right after I send this post I'll remember. You can even empty the pop bottle, fill it with tap water and seal it up. Even with repeated freeze thaws it will not fail (give it an inch or so of space)! I've stored water this way for 2 years in my car and drank it without and change in flavor etc.

#1.6 The only items I've ever tried to store (bought from the grocer and stored AS IS in a closet) and have them fail are:
wheat - 6months in it had bugs. Wheat needs to be treated carefully before longterm storage. Every time I skipped treatment it got bugs. (I'm talking about white flour).

peanut butter and cooking oil -seems to last 1 year before turning on me. Note: I'm not talking about fat free peanut butter. Nutella (same thing) and please don't let Nutella go bad....that's like slapping God in the face.

powdered milk - tends to go a bit off after 5 years. I still drank it without effect, but I wouldn't feel comfortable keeping it for over 5 years.

plastic wrap - I have no idea why, but the plastic wrap they sell for lunches CONSISTENTLY fails on me after 3-4 years.

spices - after 10 years cinnamon has almost no flavor (if you use sticks you can still get some taste). Most spices lose a LOT of flavor. Black Pepper has never seemed to lose flavor though. Cayenne pepper ALWAYS has the scent of it transfer through the plastic containers. It infects everything it is near with its smell. Repackage into glass or metal containers solves this easily.

milk chocolate- sadly after 10 years they taste 'off'. I'm testing dark chocolate next as the milk/fat is likely the issue (coca + sugar easily last 10 years without effect)

#1.7 Freeze dried camping food. Stored over 12 years. Every package I've opened has been good to eat. I did have one package of I think it was called "white crabfish salad" that the condiments in the individual packets completely dried up. This meant they weren't packaged well. Oh, I didn't try the mayo. A container of freeze dried scrambled eggs I've had for 8 years is still holding up well. I open the can, remove the powdered eggs and close the can again. I don't bother to toss in a moisture absorber. This is more because I am curious to see how they will keep (might be foolish in retrospect). Next time I will toss in a refreshed moisture absorber.

#1.8 Things that stored surprisingly well:
Tensor bands after 8 years they are still elastic!!! Some strands have broken but I would have thought they'd be as useless as elastic bands. They work at 98% of the original stretch even with repeated stretches over 8 years. They are a bit frayed as the spikey-clasp-things work at it over the years.

White rice, sugar, powdered maple syrup, molasses, lithium ion batteries, Vaseline, dried beans, hard candies and salt will last forever. I totally guarantee it. All of the above I have purchased at a grocer and put in room temperature storage for almost 2 decades (1 decade for the batteries). They haven't changed at all. I'd even sneak a finger of molasses every 6 months without any precautions and it hasn't changed a bit. Unreal. These things clearly can't be that good for you smile They do provide calories though (again not the lithium batteries)!

#2 Next thing:
If you are planning a long term BOB pickup some of the floss that is ultra thin and doesn't shred. You can reuse this floss an incredible number of times and time doesn't appear to decay it (I have some over 5 years old and it functions as new). After use, you can clean the floss (take off the gross chunks of food) and boil it to sterilize it for the next use (it doesn't melt). Also, bring a brush and treat it the same. Primitive replacement toothbrushes SUCK compared to a real one. Women pickup the Diva Cup (my wife says).

#3 Survival Tabs are incredible! I've survived on 12 tablets a day for weeks on end without even feeling hunger or energy loss. True, I went from 185 lbs to 178 lbs, but that was due to me carrying around too much fat for my body style/usage. I stayed at 178 for the entire last week. The tabs I was eating were 6 years old and stored in the back of my vehicles (exposed to summer 40 Celsius and winter -40). They taste like a dessert and can be eaten just as easily if they are frozen. On trips I'd snack on a few and just screw the top back on. Over 6 years the tablets have a bit of discoloration on the top surface (likely due to oxidization and the tiny amount of moisture I introduced by opening them). Another advantage that I didn't learn about until later was that they are celiac friendly (even though they taste somewhat like malted candy). I didn't know I was allergic to wheat/gluten when I bought them over Mainstay survival boat rations. Lucky for me! If anyone knows of wheat/gluten free lifeboat rations please send me a PM. Variety is the spice of life.

#4 For sweetening teas on the trail I pack a small container of Stevia. This stuff is a powder that is 1000 times sweeter than sugar and all natural. It allows me to carry 1000x less sugar which saves me massive amounts of weight. Con: It is calorie free and you you have to be careful with how much you add or you will over sweeten.

#5 Shake flashlights. I've had some cheapish ones that have worked like gold for 6+ years without any issues or degradation.

#6 Ditch those space blankets. They suck. In just a few short years they lose a chunk of their effectiveness. They are like popcorn in that you can't get them into a small package again. They are noisy and if they get a tear they run and shred themselves. Pickup the new HeatSheets. They have none of these issues and one side is orange VS shiny.

#7 Try the Bushbuddy stove. Borrow a friends or just go by it yourself based on my recommendation. These make stealthy fires impossibly easy to produce. Little/ no smoke to give you away and super efficient use of fuel. This means poor fuel (such as wet pin cones and forest litter) can be used to produce stealthy fires which means less calories finding dry standing wood.

#8 Silicone-nylon tarps. I've had one for at least 5 years. It has been on hundreds of survival outings and subjected to untold pokey branches without a single puncture. It survives time travel well.

#9 Katadyne Pocket filter (reusable ceramic filter). I've used it for about a decade and I'm on my first filter. Throw out the super abrasive scrubber they include with the unit and use a rag. The filter gets a bit soft when wet (which is when you'll clean it). Rub with the cloth until flow is restored.
I'm pretty sure I'll pass this same filter on to my children's children. One filter will likely last you a lifetime if you take the smallest amount of care (ie when at basecamp I let the sediment settle out in a container before filtering). The only time I had any issues was when I was stuck for a month in a crappy location having to survive on rainwater. I setup a large tarp to capture and channel the rainwater into a green plastic garbage can (the only item available to hold water). The plastic in the garbage can would clog the filter with surprising regularity, even with letting the sediment settle. I wouldn't recommend using any garbage cans as they are not food grade plastic. Some are even treated with pesticides.
I survive in spite of myself. It's a wonder my son doesn't have flippers smile

#10 Most plastics last FOREVER if they aren't exposed to the sun. The only exception are laptop cases which are engineered to self destruct. Oh, and those water bottles that aren't clear plastic. Every single one of them I tested failed catastrophically within 1-2 years.

ok enough writing for me and enough reading for you. I apologize for the length of this post but I felt I should get some of this out there.

Peace,
NIM

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#208575 - 09/25/10 06:17 PM Re: Survival Tip that worked for me (from experience) [Re: NIM]
Yuccahead Offline
Member

Registered: 07/24/08
Posts: 199
Loc: W. Texas
Great stuff. Thanks.
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-- David.

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#208578 - 09/25/10 10:00 PM Re: Survival Tip that worked for me (from experience) [Re: NIM]
CANOEDOGS Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1853
Loc: MINNESOTA
i read a lot of posts here but this is the first i can recall that someone really-really got into some major real life testing.good work.

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#208579 - 09/25/10 10:49 PM Re: Survival Tip that worked for me (from experience) [Re: NIM]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3760
Loc: TX
And the Best Post of the Year Award goes to NIM!!
That was awesome.

-Blast
_________________________
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Radio Call Sign: KI5BOG
*As an Amazon Influencer, I may earn a sales commission on Amazon links in my posts.

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#208580 - 09/25/10 11:17 PM Re: Survival Tip that worked for me (from experience) [Re: NIM]
roberttheiii Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 393
Loc: Connecticut, USA
NIM - You are the MAN! Thanks so much. Where were you living off garbage can water?

Ahh! I love this! Thanks again.

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#208585 - 09/26/10 01:42 AM Re: Survival Tip that worked for me (from experience) [Re: roberttheiii]
jasond Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 52
Loc: North Carolina
Great post lots of good information thanks for testing and sharing....

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#208586 - 09/26/10 02:06 AM Re: Survival Tip that worked for me (from experience) [Re: NIM]
comms Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
now that is a long term sustainability plan
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Don't just survive. Thrive.

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#208590 - 09/26/10 10:50 AM Re: Survival Tip that worked for me (from experience) [Re: NIM]
Phaedrus Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3154
Loc: Big Sky Country
Superb post! I've posted a few comments on items I've stored for five years, but never two decades! You're truly adding to the knowledge base of EST...a knowledge base that's already the best on web. Thanks for making it even better. cool
_________________________
“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman

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#208608 - 09/27/10 12:48 AM Re: Survival Tip that worked for me (from experience) [Re: NIM]
Cockroach Offline
Stranger

Registered: 09/18/10
Posts: 13
Excellent write-up, thanks for sharing!

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#208611 - 09/27/10 01:56 AM Re: Survival Tip that worked for me (from experience) [Re: NIM]
Richlacal Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 778
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Thanks Alot NIM,You are an Awesome Person!

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