I re-read through all the posts here. There is some good info, however one aspect struck me and that is who here on this forum could actually see themselves in a desperate situation where it depended on you having to shoot animals to survive?

I carry a PLB and now also a SPOT device in the unlikely event I or someone in our group would require immediate rescue where a serious injury occurred and or a life was at stake. That said, I just cannot picture carrying a bb, pellet, .22 gun et al just in case I may find myself without food and have to hunt to eat. To me, being equipped to survive means having the PLB and or SPOT, adequate and extra food, other survival kit and also leaving a detailed itinerary with family /friends so that a rescue is initiated if we do not return at the scheduled time.

On the other hand, I can see where people who do not carry a PLB, or Spot and do not carry adquate food, kit nor leave an itinerary, may very well find themselves in a desperate situation and would be forced to scavenge and hunt for food until help and rescue arrives..or if it ever arrives at all. If it came down to this, I would rather be finding my way out of that situation. I don't think that aside from perhaps some remote areas of the Rockies and a few other small areas in the USA lower 48 where with the compass that you at least hopefully packed, you would not be all that long in finding some semblance of civilization before you were too weak from hunger to walk. I guess though if you did not have a compass and have a tendency to walk in circles, you will never find civilization and eventual help.

Just food for thought...no pun intended.

Byrd..there are three old books,written in 1905?-06?,about this.Wallace wrote the "lure of the labrador wild" to recount his version of what went on.Hubbard's wife,Mina, wrote "a womens way through unknown labrador" to prove that the trip could have been done and Wallace wrote his account of the bigger expedition he put together to explore the area "the long labrador trail"..the best thing to do is read the modern account in the form of a novel by Davidson and Rugge,"great heart".both those guys did a lot of canoeing and wrote "how to" books on the subject.the older books have some of that old style writing that is harder to read and Mina and Wallace had "issues" about the first trip and much is not said by either of them on touchy subjects.George Ellson the guide is Great Heart,read and find out why.and it's just not the adventures on the trail but the change that comes over people having survived something like what they went through.

Teslin..not me.unless we were to pull up stakes and drive up to Alaska and live off the land and grid.for survival in the places i canoe around in,zero..a lot of what we do here is called thought experiments.what if's and what could happen if, sort of things.while i'll never have to kill game to survive if i had some sort of canoeing mishap just thinking about the "what if's"sort of keeps your mind sharp on the subject and some of the little things like the right kind of knife or knot work comes in handy...now the guys like Blast who live with a killing storm out the front door are in another world when it comes to all this.thinking about how much food and water you might need is more that just a handy subject...

I found the book that you suggested last night on Half.com for $3.15 for a used copy in great shape. I ordered it and am looking forward to reading it. Thanks for the suggestions.

I'd be confident in my ability to take that deer with a well sighted-in .223 or .30-06 (those being the two rifle calibers that I've shot the most), with iron sights. I'd be aiming for the heart and lungs, not a CNS shot.

I agree with Canoedogs. Most of the scenarios presented in this forum will never happen to any of us, and we propose them for mental exercise and for our mutual amusement.

That said, I will add that some of us are trying to keep the old ways alive. I can imagine situations like war, widespread natural disaster, regional power outtages, terrorist acts, civil unrest etc, not to mention dead batteries where no one would respond to an electronic beacon.

I have nothing against anyone who prefers to clank off down well worn trails layered in their underarmor and north face pullovers, laden with titanium gadgets, collapsible shock-absorbing carbide tipped poles, gas stoves, freeze dried tetrazinni, beacons, gore-tex bivvy, micro tarps and hi-tech computer controlled digital headlights, all packed into an ultralight computer designed carry system. That's just not me.

I also do not struggle with the concept of harvesting a wild animal for food. Deer are as numerous as cattle here, and I do not see any philosphical difference in harvesting meat myself, or buying meat at a grocery store that someone else harvested for me. I'm no Nessmuk, but I go into the woods for solitude, to hone my primitive skills, and to escape modern electronic technology.

I believe that there is a place for beacons and similar devices...pilots, mariners, long distance overlanders, group guides to name a few. However, if a person is a day hiker, a hunter, a backwoods fisherman, a bird watcher etc, and they do not possess the very basic traditional equipment and skills to to keep out of trouble or to spend an unexpected night in the woods and extract themselves without relying on others to rescue them in lieu of those skills, they should really stay on the pavement or hire an experienced guide.

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I believe that there is a place for beacons and similar devices...pilots, mariners, long distance overlanders, group guides to name a few. However, if a person is a day hiker, a hunter, a backwoods fisherman, a bird watcher etc, and they do not possess the very basic traditional equipment and skills to to keep out of trouble or to spend an unexpected night in the woods and extract themselves without relying on others to rescue them in lieu of those skills, they should really stay on the pavement or hire an experienced guide. [/quote]

I like to hike the boulder-strewn canyons in SoCal where there is often no cell service. No, I don't just like it, I REALLY like it. I have found and seen stuff (including ancient petroglyphs) that few other people have seen, perhaps no one in recent history. I could fall off a boulder and break a leg. I could get bitten by a poisonous snake. I could get attacked by a mountain lion or a bear. I could have a heart attack. This isn't just armchair fantasy, it happens. It happens within 10-15 walking/climbing minutes of houses here. Am I gonna stop doing this? Nope. Am I gonna carry a PLB in case I get disabled? You bet. ;-)

I have never hunted, but I do lots and lots of target shooting. If that deer was just standing there at 65 yards, presenting that big old broadside target like it is, any practiced shooter should be able to take it down using iron sights. A hunter would know WHERE to shoot the deer for best results, but a target shooter could easily hit the mark if told where that mark is. Personally, I don't know where you should aim on a deer to kill it quickly - so I'd be handicapped from the get-go. I suppose you could just shrug and say "Whatever, I'll shoot it in the head". That would probably work.

However, I wouldn't do it with a .22lr or .22wrm or even .223. Those are a bit underpowered (varmit calibers). I supposed in a true survival situation you'd try with whatever you had, but I wouldn't consider a .223 to be a reasonable caliber for medium sized game, much less a .22. Doesn't mean that you couldn't take a deer with one of these smaller calibers, just that you probably shouldn't IMHO, unless you life depended on it.

But were this me, I'd be going after smaller stuff with my handy slingshot. Squirrels and birds and such are easy to get with a slingshot, and would keep you alive.

The scenario was actually a protracted natural disaster with me bugging out not in, so yes pidgeons doves, robins whatever i could take, but then it became more of a general would it even work question so i wasn't sure what forum to put post it in. Thanks again for all your input and feedback I will be taking the C11 into the field sometime before I have to actually rely on it but not sure when.

I beg to differ. For the last 3 years I have subscribed to Google news alerts that email me on a regular basis, news articles where even the most properly equipped and highly experienced outdoors enthusiasts from all walks of life make mistakes and have to either be rescued or are found dead. Many of these people would still be alive today if they carried a SPOT or PLB.

All the old traditonal skills are not going to help you if you slip and break a leg, fracture your back, etc and you have no way of putting those learned traditional skills to work to save your life, whereas pressing a button or 2 on a PLB or SPOT can make a significant difference in the outcome of your situation.

It is also somewhat ironic that on this forum, hardly a week or month passes where we hear and read of a person(s) who got lost, died etc while out enjoying the outdoors and the most popular and almost immediate lament here is "Why were they not carrying a PLB or SPOT?". DR himself has made many posts on the wisdom of carrying such devices....regardless of any persons skill level.

Yes I am not big on technology and abhore many gadgets, that in my outdoors pursuits I see people carry. However the SPOT and PLB are 2 such devices which can make the right difference. I guess though it is all a matter of perspective. As much as I love the outdoors, I also love coming home to my family and friends after a day(s) out in the trails and mountains. If in the unlikely event I ever find myself in trouble and if it takes having to press the button to summon rescue, at least my odds to live increase and I will get see my family another day...and that is all that really matters.