I start this thread in hopes it will keep this debate out of the "best second weapon in the arsenal" thread. My point in that thread is that choosing a concealable weapon is, for me, too mired in political, legal, and practical complexity.

I offer the following just to kick off a discussion in which I do not intend to take further part. In no way do I intend anything here as a legal opinion or advice on which anyone should rely; this is just for entertainment at best.

My oversimplified take, after less than an hour trying to make sense of the California concealable weapon topic, is that you can carry a loaded pistol only with a permit in very limited circumstances unless you are in public safety. You can however, transport an unloaded pistol in many circumstances, though often it appears that requires the pistol to be locked in a container separate from its ammunition.

In addition, hunting regulations ban the carrying and possession of pistols in archery seasons and on most public waterfowl hunting land, to name just a few instances.

Clearly there are those who interpret the laws differently, or want them interpreted differently, or want them changed to allow wider use of and ability to carry pistols. You should consider sll this as carefully as you think advisable.

Let the games begin!

I recommend not participating in this game.

This is not an appropriate forum or website for the topic.(my opinion)

Yeah, this is going to be shut down soon.

But, to offer more food for thought: the national parks are now apparently OK to carry a non-concealed weapon. I wonder how that'll play out while in CA - does federal or state jurisdiction take precedence?

That is pretty easy.
DON'T CARRY ONE

My interest in the legal peculiarities of fire arms in California (which, literary, is on the other side of the world) is purely academic. (And yes, I'm a nosy fellow that sometimes will dig into peculiar stuff just for the fun of it) Some of the peculiarities are quite amusing: Allowed except in archery hunting season??? Hard to grasp the logic behind that...


My 2 cents: I would think the subject would be appropriate for the forum. What kind of fire arm, how and when can you carry it, when is it absolutely illegal and so on. Nothing wrong there... just don't divert into politics. You may or may not like the law, but the law is the law, and it would probably be a good idea to discuss what the law actually is and isn't. It is kind of weird if you can discuss calibers, but not the pitfalls you need to avoid to legally carry a weapon?


Now discussion of the people who pass the laws, if the law is a good law or a bad law ... plenty of other forums where you can discuss those.

DING DING! Give the man a prize, he won.

It's simple....

In the subset of situations where it's legal to carry,
assuming you're carrying, and
assuming you know what particular matrix of geographic, time and mechanical characteristics of the gun allow you to legally carry a gun in California....

What would you carry?

visit the calguns website for legal information.

Oh, and in CA you can carry the ammunition in the same locked container as the unloaded handgun.

???

In MN you can't carry a firearm while bow hunting for deer.
You can always carry a flashlight. They can be used to temporarily blind someone, or as an impact weapon. Some are better designesd for this i.e. some Surefires. I carry a yellow Surefire. Easy to find if it's dropped in the woods, and some people have issues with black things. I figure it's the least threatining. I do have other flashlight of various colors too.

I would agree. If you are in California, Chicago, New York City, or Washington DC it is simply not an option at this time. Practically, it is easy and painless to choose a concealed carry firearm. But politically and legally, in a handful of places, you are just out of luck and it probably isn't worth the effort to even try. Unless you are "trying" for all the people confined to those areas and are willing to challange their current laws in the courts. This does work, but it takes time.

From the Shenandoah NP website, you have three hoops to jump through -- federal, state and local:

Firearms in National Parks

The law governing possession of firearms inside a national park changed on February 22, 2010.

Visitors may possess firearms within a national park unit provided they comply with federal, state, and local laws.

The role of the responsible gun owner is to know and obey the federal, state, and local laws appropriate to the park they are visiting.

Please remember that federal law prohibits firearms in certain park facilities and buildings. These places are marked with signs at public entrances.

OK, but who is going to be enforcing that law? I may be mistaken (and please correct me if I am), but I would assume that park rangers have no non-federal authority. The state police and local folks jurisdiction ends when you cross into federal land. If I'm technically breaking state law, do NP police have the jurisdiction (and education on that state's laws) to enforce it? Can state/local officers be "asked" by NP to come in and enforce their jurisdiction on federal land?

I'm not advocating doing this, I'm just curious how the different jurisdictions get along.

The topic of CCW in California is so complex and constantly changing that it would take a dedicated forum to even begin to comprehend them.

Luckily, one already exist.

http://calccw.com/

As with any internet forum, you need to take any information with a grain of salt, there is a lot of misinformation from people with good intentions, but who really are just repeating things they've heard from AFOAF (A friend of a friend) who's daughter's boyfriend's room-mate was told by a off duty police officer 5 years ago. Some of it might be generally correct, but some of is completely off base.

I don't have the statute or implementing regs in front of me but if it says that the park's firearm policy mirrors the federal and surrounding state-local statutes then I'd expect they could enforce it.

Would they ignore expired vehicle tags?

I wouldn't count on it.

I believe the change in national parks says that you may carry a concealed weapon in a national park ONLY IF you are in compliance with state laws. So if you are caught carrying concealed in a national park when you should not be, then they would be enforcing the federal law that says you can't carry unless authorized in the corresponding state. They would not be enforcing the underlying state law. That state law only serves as a basis to decide whether you are violating a federal law or not. At least that's the way I understand this.

You are correct in some parks, and incorrect in others. It is rather complex, and my information and understanding is rather dated. The situation varies from park to park. In a good many parks, both state and federal laws apply. Varying with the situation, some rangers are also deputy sheriffs for the local county.

Here is a thread at calguns showing advertising about a conference on your questions.

Become informed.

Hyatt SF Sept 24-26.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?s=1cbee57047a8bc29f20493ecf83690af&t=337830

According to a friend,of whom is a US Marshall,The National Parks are controlled by The Dept. of The Interior.The Dept.of The Interior is Completely a Federal Jurisdiction,However...Any Law enforcement officer, of that state,Can Hold you in custody for 72hrs.& Confiscate any weapons,Should they deem it Necessary,As per their own Better Judgement.Even if you are found to be "Legitimate"Afterward,Getting your gun back can or Will be,A whole different case! Sounds Like a "Grand-Mal PITA" to go through,However it's Peanuts,Should the act of Defending You or your Family,Have to be carried out!Are you an NRA Member?The NRA will be your BEST Defense,should you need it!I am NOT Advocating Breaking the Law,by ANY means! I do Have Affiliation with The NRA,I am A Member!

For concealable weapons in California, I recommend hanging out at a California-specific site, like calguns.net. The laws for concealed carry in California are numerous, but they're pretty clear. It may be fun to re-invent the wheel by discussing this topic with people from other states. However, you may be wasting your time because there are definite answers for every weapon that I know.

I choose not to discuss concealed carry weapons on this site. I don't need to hear comments about my choice of weapons from people who don't know California laws. Concealed carry is not a good topic for lightweight Internet chatting. If you want to carry concealed legally, then it'll serve you well if you just get it right the first time.