Wondering if a high-powered .22 pellet rifie should be the second member of the arsenal. Legal for up to turkey size critters, quiet, suppressors legal even in CA, and come with scope and all in the $250 dollar range new. Not considered firearms in most regs, so not subject to some bans on rifles or pistols in public land areas in certain seasons.

Thoughts?

Thanks.

I think my second (actually was a Ruger Security Six) firearm would be a stainless revolver..357mag, 3 or 4inch barrel...K or L frame S&W (I prefer the 3inch round butt M65/66) or Ruger GP100..

It looks like you decided on the Remington 870 as your first weapon: a good choice.

For the second, you may want to consider if any second long gun is practical to carry given the circumstances you envision. Carrying 2 long guns could be a bit of a burden.

So I would agree on a handgun as a second, and a .357 lets you use a variety of ammo, from .38 wad cutter, shot and up to full power .357. It gives a lot of flexibility. In this, it has similar advantages to the shotgun. Personally, as I mentioned in your other thread, I would go with a 6 inch barrel: I think 3 inch is a bit short. 4 inch might be a reasonable compromise. Also, you might find a good used .357 at a very reasonable price.

A high powered break air rifle will weigh 8+ lbs and practical hunting will be limited to 35-45 metres. Ammunition will very light though and you could easily carry 1000s of pellets.

But if your requirement was for a backup then a Ruger Mark II Stainless Slab side Competition Target Model 22LR pistol might be worth looking into.

Edit

How about one of these

http://www.crickett.com/crickett_hunterpistol.php



Cricket Hunter single shot pistol .22LR

You should also be able to get a full replacement stock for more control which would take the weight of the rifle to around the 3lb mark.

Pistols problematic in CA. Banned from many public game refuges and parks. Debate rages whether OK to carry while hunting: clearly banned if hunting in an archery season, debatably OK with burden on you to convince suspicious officers in other seasons if you are not actively assisting in the hunting or "take" [so what is the point of carrying it].

I am still trying to understand the tangle of regulations and laws on pistol carrying. The DFG, DOJ, and the CA Attorney General have overall jurisdiction, but so doeas every schoold district, municipality, common carrier, county, etcetera. It is enough so at least for now I am discouraged from a pistol as a second member of the arsenal.

Carrying a second long rifle is a practical concern. That is why originally I was so interested in the rifle-shotgun combo guns. This device might make life with a second long gun tolerable:

http://www.gunslingercorral.com/

On the subject of legalities....
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=73404
Conventional wisdon seems to be if the suppressor is permanantly attached and an integral part of the air rifle, it's probably OK. But, if it could be removed with anything less then a hacksaw and and attached to a conventional firearm it's illegal. Interpertation is subject to the local LEOs, so YMMV.

Oh...so many choices.

And be careful, once one gun follows you home, soon they start accumulating. You'll be thinking 3rd, 4th and 5th soon enough

For me, a second gun = a small gun. I am partial to the simplicity of the Glock, but I've kind of moved into a revolver state of mind over the last year or so.


I REALLY like my Savage Arms M6 - it's a .410 and .22, it's compact, accurate enough and really neat.

I've also been very happy with my .17 HMR Henry - that one is so light and the rounds so fast that it's pretty awesome.

Does anyone know of a sub 1.5 lb bolt action take down short barreled .22 Mag constructed from Titanium and Carbon Composite materials? I'm thinking of a design something like the Cricket Hunter single shot pistol shown above but with a removable adjustable stock attachment. There must be a market for a very compact and ultra lightweight survival/backpackers rifle.

Although the Cricket .22 is primarily designed as an introductory Children's rifle I suspect it would make a very reasonable backpacking rifle with some modifications.

http://www.youtube.com/user/CrickettRifles

http://www.youtube.com/user/CrickettRifles#p/f/18/W_SiTY86DpQ

Is the Cricket Rifle subject to ATF regulations being a SBR

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_barreled_rifle

A good quality pellet rifle is good for small game. I don't know about turkey unless you can stalk or bring them in close enough for a clear head shot. But rats, medium-sized birds, squirrels, and average size rabbits are all possible. You can get a lot of practice with a pellet rifle and do it on short money. $5 gets 500 to a thousand pellets.

I also think your overestimating the price. Yes, you can spend $250 on a pellet rifle but there are nice spring guns, complete with a good scope, that go for about $125. It is entirely possible to set up a temporary 33' indoors range for such a rifle and get in some rainy day shooting. Thirty-three feet, or more, isn't long but the basics of keeping shots in a quarter-inch circle are the same as bigger targets at longer ranges.

It can be fun to make a game of it. Plastic army men and all you can shoot off-hand in a minute as competition. Most of the higher power pellet rifles are single-shot with a muscular cocking process so a minute isn't very long.

For a bit more than $250, I figure, less than $300 I figure, you could get both a nice pellet rifle and a magazine-fed bolt-action .22LR. Both new. Buy used and you might swing it for $250.

Not a bad choice. I might put it fourth or fifth, but if I was in a more urban area that would modify my ranking.

Big advantage- limited range. A .22 is still quite leathal after 800 yards of forest so long as it doesn't hit a tree. Three times that if you were shooting at something up IN a tree.

Instead of a pellet rifle, I'd say go with a .22lr or a .38/.357 carbine like the Marlin 1894c. That way you could share ammo with a revolver. With low powered .38special loads the 1894c would almost be as quiet as a pellet gun with a whole lot more punch.

If you are referring to The Gamo-1000 air Rifle with supressor,think a little 1st.Why would you need a supressor on an air Rifle?I would think the need for every bit of propulsion you could get,would be the standard for ANY airgun.Anytime a supressor/silencer is used on any firarm,The Muzzle velocity is readily/extremely affected.Gamo advertises 1200 fps for those air Rifles in .177 caliber,I seriously doubt their claim at least outside of a Lab.If you want silent,Get a Crossbow,they will teach the untrained eye to a simple but very effective form of ballistics,You can later use that judgement for just about anything,You are likely to hunt!Your 1st choice for the Rem.870 is a Very Good choice!Don't waste your $$$ on a Brazillian BB gun for choice #2!

Many thoughtful replies, thanks.

The idea of the suppressed pellet rifle is to have an ultra-quiet hunting tool to give minimum notice of hunting going on to critters and people. Staying subsonic, or under about 1,050 FPS, is aided by design using lead pellets and a suppressor. Several articles indicated Olympic pellet rifles shoot about 500-600 FPS maximum for greatest accuracy.

Like a 22, the ammo is quite cheap which allows for lots of skill-building practice. Unlike a 22, the pellet will not travel a mile if it is shot without a backstop, giving more safe shot-taking flexibility.

Each pellet is also quite small so you can carry a lot, there is some variety in sizes and shapes, and if you wanted you could pour your own lead pellets. And, of course, you pump these guns rather than percussing gun powder, so your "propellant" supply is essentially infinite and free.

CA hunting regs authorize pellet rifles shooting greater than .20 calibre for turkey, and most everything short of "big game," [such as beer, deer, elk, and pigs]. Unlike crossbows, pellet guns are not considered firearms and are neither rimfire or centerfire, so restrictions on the possession or use of such items do not apply; this gives pellet rifles a potentially very wide area of use.

Actually the Best 2nd member of the arsenal would be,Alot of Trap/Skeet time with your 870!Also practice with a few light-load slugs, though not normally accurate past 50yds.,because of the smooth-bore,They are quite capable rounds,that can be utilized in an 870,should you need it.The pellet rifle is not going to prepare you,for the use of a Rem.-870,even with 9&1/2 shot, the 870 is going to pop your chops,the 1st 5 rds. or so.Good Luck with your Endeavours!

IIRC the point is self-defense, its legal to carry concealed handgun for Licensed hunters or fishermen while engaged in hunting or fishing, or while going to or returning from such hunting or fishing expeditions.

Echoing several other members, I have used the Remington 870 for my entire adult life for upland, duck, and deer. I'm on my second one, the first having been snapped in half (along with my wrist) in a car crash long ago.

In spite of all of the guns in my gunsafe, I have taken the most game with my Winchester 1000X pellet rifle. IMO, why not have a powerful pellet rifle in the arsenal? It's rated range is 300 yards, but with with my middle-aged eyesight and Copperhead .177 cal pointed hunting pellets, I limit my shots and easily take rabbits at 50-75 yards. I took the scope off of it because I don't like scopes, but as the decades stack up, I might have to reconsider. That would give the rifle even more effective range than I am using now. The rifle makes a loud 'popping' sound when fired and if I were to ever purchase another one, I would get the silencer model.

As others have mentioned, good air rifles are surprisingly powerful, very low maintenance, ammo is cheap and almost unregulated, and my brand comes 250 rounds to a metal can the size of a snuff can. Under $150.00

Incidentally, avoid the air rifles that have a big recoil pad. The recoil of an air rifle is forward!

If you decide on the air rifle and do scope it get one designed for air rifles. As stated above the recoil is forward.

I wouldn't be too quick to buy/make/use a silencer, or anything that might be construed to be a silencer. I would be careful to check with law enforcement, legal or not if the sheriff wants to hassle you you're facing trouble, and research the all applicable laws to seal the deal. Defending yourself in court gets to be time consuming and expensive even if you are found to be entirely in the right and are acquitted.

You may find out that having a silencer for your pellet rifle is as involved and expensive as owning a silencer for any regular firearm.

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2005/05/what-about-silencer-for-your-airgun.html

http://www.beemans.net/silencers_on_airguns.htm

I doubt the law is that if you are hunting or fishing, or going to or from such activity, you can carry a concealed handgun. This would be a loophole bigger than a Mack truck and instantly convert everybody to hunting and fishing. However, I am not going to do the homework on this one because I am tired and also confident the motley crew, I mean brain trust, at ETS will chime in with the straight skinny.

Yes, that really is the law If you're already carrying a loaded rifle/shotgun how is it a loophole? If you're really interested in the skinny visit the law section of calguns.net, they even have recommendations for lawyers who specialize in gun law

No question, my second gun choice would be a handgun. I know you've pretty much ruled it out, but they have a place.

I have a few autoloaders: 1911, Glock 17, S&W 5906, S&W 3906, KelTec P9, etc. I also have a few revolvers: S&W J frame in .38spl stainless w 3" barrel, S&W Airlite in .38spl w 3" barrel, S&W Airlite .22 w 3" barrel, S&W K frame in .357 stainless w 3" barrel, etc. I guess you can tell I like the 3" barrels, they have good adjustable sights for accuracy and are still short enough to easily conceal.

If I had to pick just one, it would be a revolver. Versatility of ammo has already been mentioned, but they are also user friendly. Simplicity is a virtue, and revolvers have it in spades. I've seen countless jams with autos; you can limp wrist them, block the slide so they short cycle, failure to feed, etc. In thousands of rounds, I've seen one revolver jam. A handload with a double charge that swelled the case in the cylinder (yeah, it was my handload!).

My second second choice would be a bolt action .22. There's a wide variety of loads from hyper velocity to CCI CBlongs with a muzzle velocity of 710fps. (Take a look at ammotogo.com) The CBlongs are ridiculously quiet, quieter than many single cock pellet guns and they're pushing a 29 gr bullet compared to a 13 gr pellet. I recently got my son a Henry Mini Bolt youth .22. Small stainless steel with synthetic stock, weighs just 3 1/4 pounds. I think I've shot it more than my son. It's a hoot and a very capable, simple gun. Not the cheapest, but there are plenty of new and used .22 bolts that would work just as well.

Finally, if you're set on a pellet gun, consider an older Sheridan 5mm pump. NOT the Benjamine Sheridan, the "made in Racine, Wis. Sheridans". The Bluestreaks and Silverstreaks are not the easiest to find, they are still in demand, but they are the best. I have 2 Silverstreaks, a 1972 and a 1978. Though old, they both hold air and shoot like they were made yesterday. I shoot mine regularly to keep the brown headed cowbirds out of the feeders, very accurate and a pleasure to shoot. They can usually be found on gunbrokers.com, search "sheridan". And always keep a pump or two in the gun to keep the seals tight.

Just my 2 cents, ha ha!

lukus

Okay, I will go look to see how you can avoid the need for the background check and proof of need to get a concealed weapon carry permit by just going fishing or hunting. Color me sceptical.

Well, looking at California concealable weapon law is an hour I will never get back!

I am starting a "concealed weapon in California" thread for those who want to thrash that out.

For the purpose of this thread on what second weapon would be best to add to the arsenal, I will just say that while I would prefer a weapon not so mired in legal, political, and practical complexity or controversy, everyone has the right to make their own informed choice.

The order I would recommend for initial firearms purchasing would go something like this:

(1) .22 rifle

(2a) .38/.357 revolver (midsize to large, not small)
-or-
(2b) full size 9mm semi-auto pistol

(3a) mid power semi-auto rifle (7.62x39 or 5.56x45/.223 or 5.45x39)
-or-
(3b) 12 gauge pump shotgun

(4) .22 pistol or revolver

(5a) full power bolt action rifle (.270, .30-06, 7.62x54R, .308, etc.)
-or-
(5b) .177 caliber air rifle

(6+) where ever your heart takes you - larger bore pistols, small concealed carry handguns, additional rifles, additional action types (lever, single shot, etc.) ...

I've considered using a pellet gun as a second gun. I think it's a good option, mostly because so much ammo can be carried so easily. I think I'd sacrifice some muzzle velocity and go with a handgun version rather than lug around a second rifle.

Right now my second gun choice would be either a S&W Kit Gun or Charter Arms Target Pathfinder. The latter can be switched between .22 lr and .22 mag by swapping cylinders, which seems useful. It's hard to find CA guns in the shops, so it might be a while before I get my hands on one so I can compare it to the Kit Gun.

If I lived in an area where hunting small game with a handgun were illegal, I'd probably buy a take-down .22 like the ones put out by Marlin or Henry Arms. The lightest one I know about is the Pack-Rifle, though I've never shot one. It looks cheap: http://pakrifle.com/Pak-Rifle.html

One more idea is to use a large-caliber, 5' blowgun as a "second gun". It can double as a walking staff. Ammo is pretty easy to make, and I know it's good for squirrels, at least.

http://www.packrifle.com/pictures.html

A sub 1lb .22LR takedown rifle with Carbon shrouded Cro-Mo liner Barrel, which also converts to a small fishing rod with an MSRP of $425. This is pure James Bond or Day of the Jackel gadgetry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM6Q7m-HFj4

What is interesting is that there are places (NYC is one) where (with appropriate permit) it is legal to own (but not discharge etc) a .22 rifle, but it is totally illegal to own an air rifle of ANY kind. Yep, your classic 'Red Ryder BB Gun' is totally illegal in NYC, as is a 'wrist brace sling shot' and a lot of other things, and they actually fall under the same paragraphs of the law as more major violations (like carrying an unlicensed firearm)

Maybe this should go a little further down the list than "second in the arsenal", but it looks fun to eventually get! And it's AirSoft!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbBrKZ4m30w