After reading the latest news on some of the California fires, it appears as though a lost hunter’s signal fire started one of the big fires. As of now, he has been charged with a misdemeanor.

I was wondering what this site’s posters had to say about his choice of signaling? What should happen to this hunter?

As a side-bar, the same reporter had interviewed displaced residents who were complaining that no one told them what to prepare for. Since I live on the East Coast I have to resist judging a West Coast situation, however, I can’t believe these residents couldn’t have anticipated and been at least a little prepared for a fire (or earthquake) evacuation. I don’t mean to sound insensitive, but it just doesn’t make much sense to me.

Our thoughts are with all those who’ve been affected by these fires. It’s a terrible thing to lose so much you care about in a matter of minutes or hours.

This is interesting since the same thing happened in Arizona a year or so ago. In that case it was a lost hiker. As far as what punishment should be I'm not sure. The devastation wasn't intentional but possibly negligent. I think I would need to know the person's state of mind at the time they started the fire.

I am keeping a running journal of ideas,observations and lessons. Hopefully other Southern California forum readers will join in. Temperatures quickly jumped into the 90s with a 10 % humidity level and a strong offshore flow wind just prior to the fires ( joined later by our infamous Santa Anna winds.) Large stands of bark beetle infested dead or dying trees and our FIRE ECOLOGY chapparel made for a literal time bomb. San Diego County is one of the fastest growing areas in the US. Many of those homes still have( or HAD) cedar shake shingle roofs in spite of legislation bitterly opposed by that industry. Simi valley's name comes from Shi'mi'ya, chumash for valley of the winds. The nieghboring San Fernando Valley's indian name meant valley of the smokes. So the many special interests and finger pointers should temper their agendas. Fire is the twin sister to earthquake. Both were here long before us and will remain after our departure. The San Diego fire was caused by the hunter discharging a flare. He apparently didn't even know if anyone could see it. My ranch fire was actually a precurser to the Simi fire. We were hit by embers blowing over from the Val Verde 6 short aerial miles away. That fire is now attributed to arson. The death toll is given anywhere from 11 to 24 at present. 8 people died in San Diego after ignoring evacuation orders and were overrun by fire in their cars and on foot. A private plane actually crash landed on a freeway after taking off into the heavy smoke. Recently recalled Governor Davis was in San Bernadino meeting with fire victims who statistically voted him out. Governor elect Swartzenegger met with officials near my town which statistically voted for Mc Clintock and no on the recall.

Lighting a signal fire is usually a reasonable thing to do if you wish to signal for help. It is something that is taught at all wilderness survival courses. Signal flares are similarly used and taught as a reasonable tool. It is certain that these tools only make sense when there isn't a high risk of starting a wild fire. Putting aside the blame game for a moment and foregoing the discussion of the horrendous consequences to others of the wildfire, it isn't in the survival interests of a lost individual to immerse themselves in the middle of a wildfire.

The survival lesson I take from the actions of the person who used a signal fire / flare in this case is to think hard about what I am burning and where before lighting a fire for signalling or any other purpose in a tinder box.

There was a discussion regarding this hunter last night on MSNBC's The Abrams Report...There was an Ecology guy condeming the hunter for being in the woods to shoot "Bambi and his family" and wants to press criminal charges for starting the fire with a signal flare. Seems there's a law against "Recklessly starting a fire that causes damage to forest lands, etc." Manslaughter was also mentioned. The other guy in the discussion was a talk show host who said that the hunter was smart to use a signal flare to save his life if he was lost, irregardless of the damage or further loss of life. He should be congratulated for his quick thinking under stress and no charges should be filed. Neither brought up any possible alternatives that could and should have been used in a dry ground summer hunt.
I will admit that while I have hunted for nearly 20 years, I never took a hunter's safety course. I gues that's why a signal flare has never been part of the gear I hunt with. The first signalling device that I carried - and still do - is a good whistle. These days, I also include a handheld GPS, a two-way radio, and a cell phone. The method I was taught in an extreme emergency was to fire my gun rapidly 3 times as an emergency signal. This "Hunter" seems like an idiot to me and I would agree that he should face charges.

I didn't see the piece that you're refering to but it seems as if the producers got a couple of folks to express the two most extreme points of view. Some of the legal types on the forum may weigh in with a different point of view but to me "recklessly starting a fire" is more akin to burning your human waste in the middle of a bone dry forest than accidentally starting a blaze by the firing of a distress flare. I agree that the flare might not have been to well thought out but I don't know what other options were available to the guy, what else he had already tried, what his experience level was, etc, etc. Unless you have some insight into that information then your characterization of him as an idiot might be premature. You have 20 years experience but have never taken a hunter safety course. Are you really that good or just an idiot who's been lucky for 20 years? ***I'm just illustrating a point, NOT calling you an idiot****

That's my $.02

Ed

As with any law, If there is a law against recklessly starting a fire then it should be enforced. This individual did start a fire through a recless act. Don't know about the manslaughter. As for the envrionazi flamebait about shooting bambi and his family I don't think it belongs in this conversation. If a nature loving vegan idiot got lost in the backwoods and used a flare to signal help the same situation would prevail. (The idiot label here being applied to one who used a flare in a tinder box and not as a label on nature loving vegans - that is a discussion for a different forum <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)

I think it is a sad statement on our media focus and the thoughlessness of the audience that the media attempts to attract that the flame-bait and the focus on litigation is chosen rather than to focus as you point out on the issue of what other alternatives the individual in question should have used to signal for help and how they may have stayed found instead of getting lost.

Seems we (as a society - not this forum) tend more to focus on blame and retribution and compensation than on learning from mistakes (ours or anyone elses).


BTW, anyone know just how much Stress this hunter was under? Was he simply at the end of his first day without his blanky or had he been wandering around out there without water and food trying to find his way home for a week?

Most of the hunter safety course is focused on "how to not shoot yourself" The rest is focused on "how to not shoot your hunting partner or anything else that you shouldnt be shooting. If you can handle your firearm and have a decent dose of common sense then you probably won't gain anything from the course but a ticket that says you took the course. These courses were implemented when it was discovered that too many idiots were going out to hunt. Before that folks hunted just fine for several centuries with any kind of weapon that they could lay hand to without any more training than they got from dad while watching him hunt. I suppose it's dad's fault for not hunting and teaching anymore.

There's been no info on the actual circumstances of this hunter although I am sure the newsies will talk & speculate about him for days. My comment on his being an idiot stemmed from the fact that while this hunter may have used a flare, he didn't seem to care where it came down or what happened when it did. There's not even mention yet as to whether or not this got his buddy's attention or how he did finally get -un-lost. - I still think that in the 21st century there are bette ways of sginalling than to send a flare up in a tinder dry forest. even if that is taught in hunter safety classes.

I have read there is a difference between marine aerial flares and wilderness aerial flares. Marine flares will burn longer, as there is no chance (?) for them to ignite material after hitting the water. Wilderness flares will burn for a shorter period of time so that there will be no chance (?) of them igniting a fire after hitting the ground, as they should be burned out by then.

To the uninformed, an aerial flare is an aerial flare.

There is a reason to use/carry the proper signal equipment and understand the dangers.