#205885 - 08/11/10 04:38 PM
Stevens Alaska Crash
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Journeyman
Registered: 06/13/10
Posts: 56
Loc: New York State
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The brief piece I read on The Daily Beast, with a snippet from an AP story, gave a few details on the airplane crash in Alaska that killed former Sen. Ted Stevens.
The quote:
“Former Senator Ted Stevens lay dead in the mangled fuselage of the plane,” according to its report, while nearby 13-year-old William Phillips Jr. watched his father die. The four survivors, including former NASA chief Sean O’Keefe and his son, were forced to endure the Alaskan cold for hours with broken bones. Some rescuers credited their survival to the heavy-duty waders they were wearing (the passengers were embarking on a fishing trip); they helped to protect them from the rain and cold as rescuers struggled against bad weather to reach the site. Of the survivors, Sean O’Keefe is the only one currently listed in critical condition.
That's a nightmare scenario, and I'd love to hear Doug Ritter's comments on that. How do you prepare for something like that? I don't fly, but I know I carry in my car several blankets, extra warm socks, first aid kit, and in winter extra fleece hoodies.
Tim
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#205886 - 08/11/10 04:47 PM
Re: Stevens Alaska Crash
[Re: TimDex]
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Old Hand
Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 882
Loc: Colorado
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(I know I'm not Doug but here are some thoughts-)
Car scenario is different than airplane scenario.
Airplane crash usually means that you are going to have what you can reach (if you can reach). Pinned in the seat/debris is not uncommon. (I had a flight instructor whose father was pinned in wreckage for 2 days before being found. She was advising me to drape my coat over the seatback rather than tossing it into the back of the plane.)
Having to wait hours for help is the best scenario.
There were experiences in WWII where the plane crashed, crew survived and scrambled out of the plane and had to watch as all their survival gear burned in the wreckage. "survival vests" were born from those experiences.
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#205896 - 08/11/10 08:53 PM
Re: Stevens Alaska Crash
[Re: unimogbert]
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Old Hand
Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
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There were experiences in WWII where the plane crashed, crew survived and scrambled out of the plane and had to watch as all their survival gear burned in the wreckage. "survival vests" were born from those experiences. Good point. This Canadian trapper was pinned under his 4-wheeler for days. He had plenty of supplies strapped to the vehicle but he couldn't access anything that was not on his person. Everybody thinks they can get to whatever is in their pack... until the pack falls over the cliff or floats down the river.
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#205898 - 08/11/10 09:20 PM
Re: Stevens Alaska Crash
[Re: Glock-A-Roo]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
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the Alaskan bush seems a good place to practice being really prepared; cold/ wet weather gear, First aid kit ( extensive) and comm. gear.
A good jacket, boots and a day pack sized kit are a fine start....
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#205909 - 08/12/10 12:29 AM
Re: Stevens Alaska Crash
[Re: unimogbert]
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Geezer
Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
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Switlik has a few good ideas on how to carry your gear. Where I fly not sinking is a good start. . .
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough. Okay, what’s your point??
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#205913 - 08/12/10 12:40 AM
Re: Stevens Alaska Crash
[Re: ]
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Geezer
Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
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. . .I think the "Good Start" to all flying is....to keep flying. Lol.
Good link. so I haven't had the misfortune to test mine. . . OTOH friends didn't have the opportunity to use theirs. Staying in the air is always Plan A. . .
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough. Okay, what’s your point??
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#205921 - 08/12/10 01:36 AM
Re: Stevens Alaska Crash
[Re: Russ]
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Geezer
Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
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Going into the Alaskan or Canadian bush (or flying over glaciers) without on-body survival gear sounds like a really fine case of poor planning.
Do you think there are people who do have kits with them, and complain that they've never had to use them? Probably.
My father always used to say that any landing you can walk away from is a good landing. I would amend that to: any landing that you can crawl away from or survive is a good landing.
Has the cause of the Stevens crash been even guessed at yet? Pilot error? Mechanical malfunction? Weather?
Sue
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#205927 - 08/12/10 02:05 AM
Re: Stevens Alaska Crash
[Re: Susan]
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Veteran
Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 1419
Loc: Nothern Ontario
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Has the cause of the Stevens crash been even guessed at yet? Pilot error? Mechanical malfunction? Weather?
Sue
I have somewhat of a personal interest in this one and just watched a video segment on the msnbc.msn.com website. There is no indication of what caused the crash and they have not been able to interview any passengers yet. It is reported that the pilot was very experienced and had 29,000 hours of commercial flying time with Alaska Airlines before retiring. The De Havilland DHC-3 Otter is an older but very reliable aircraft and is still used in daily flight operations. Harbour Air out of Vancouver Canada has 18 of these aircraft in current use.
_________________________
Earth and sky, woods and fields, lakes and rivers, the mountain and the sea, are excellent schoolmasters, and teach some of us more than we can ever learn from books.
John Lubbock
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#205943 - 08/12/10 04:40 AM
Re: Stevens Alaska Crash
[Re: Teslinhiker]
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Member
Registered: 02/22/08
Posts: 103
Loc: SE Alaska
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#205947 - 08/12/10 10:02 AM
Re: Stevens Alaska Crash
[Re: DannyL]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 253
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You should always assume that you might have to get by on what is in your pockets. This includes wilderness scenarios as well as urban - I had the fire alarm go while I was away from my desk recently - found myself in the street, no access to carpark, just what I walked out in. Luckliy I had phone, wallet etc, but the stuff stashed in my desk and car wasn't available to me. Happily it was a drill, but it is a reminder
By all means pack more, but be aware
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#205952 - 08/12/10 12:31 PM
Re: Stevens Alaska Crash
[Re: bigreddog]
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Geezer
Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
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That's why I went from "kits" to pocket carry for EDC.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough. Okay, what’s your point??
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#205954 - 08/12/10 12:58 PM
Re: Stevens Alaska Crash
[Re: Russ]
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Sheriff
Enthusiast
Registered: 04/27/09
Posts: 304
Loc: ST. Paul MN
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Having lived in Alaska for 5 years, (not that long to those that have lived there for their entire life) While living there I did SAR. One of the philosophies that the teams had was, "if it isn't on you, you don't have it." That meant that if it was in your pack you could loose it. My favorite and actually very real situation was that you would sit down take off your heavy, well equipped, pack and a bear would scare you away from your pack, or it would roll down into the river.
Since living in Alaska I carry almost everything I need to improvise or effect and extrication of myself from my surroundings. When I am at NOT at work I carry two pocket tools, 2 folding knives (one in my front pocket one in my back pocket) two flashlights and a pocket kit, along with two lighters.
Quiet often I get a joke or two from new friends or people who don’t' really know me. Until they need something from my "batman" belt.
During my time doing SAR when we would fly we always wore our vests that had our gear. Much for the exact same reasons that we are talking about here.
The thing with flying is that it has great pay off’s and great risks. Being as prepared as possible for such ditching doesn’t’ ensure that you will survive. I kind of equate flying to riding a motorcycle, great advantages, yet great risk. Well now I am going to put on my helmet and my leathers and get on the bike and go for a ride now.
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#205959 - 08/12/10 01:28 PM
Re: Stevens Alaska Crash
[Re: TimDex]
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Old Hand
Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
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Great thread, re: having stuff on your person (first-line gear). Our own Alan Romania wrote a good article on first-line gear at the Kachina Rescue website. The site is not coming up for me right now but here is the cached version. Switlik has a few good ideas on how to carry your gear. That webbing looks like standard dimension PALS, which means you could securely attach any of a very wide variety of aftermarket pouches to the vest. Very configurable; I like it. Now I just need a helicopter or plane...
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#205973 - 08/12/10 03:44 PM
Re: Stevens Alaska Crash
[Re: Glock-A-Roo]
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Geezer
Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
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". . .That webbing looks like standard dimension PALS. . ."
Yep, sure does. I like the looks of that vest a lot.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough. Okay, what’s your point??
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#205975 - 08/12/10 04:01 PM
Re: Stevens Alaska Crash
[Re: Russ]
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Member
Registered: 02/22/08
Posts: 103
Loc: SE Alaska
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Another update: http://juneauempire.com/stories/081210/sta_693975918.shtmlThe survivors were incredibly lucky. The downed plane was noticed by a passing plane even before the locator beacon was picked up. In that weather at least one of them had a guardian angel working overtime. Not a single survivor could do anything for themselves. One is still in critcal condition, with 3 serious. From the crash scene, it appears the plane just simply pancaked into the side of the mountain. The weather here is horrible in the summer, it can change in a moments notice. August is the worst month as far as aircraft accidents. The pilot of the plane was no rookie or fool (29,000 hrs), it is speculated he was trying to gain altitude to get a visual, perhaps even turn around ( speculation here..). I'm looking forward to Doug's input on this matter.
Edited by DannyL (08/12/10 04:28 PM)
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#205978 - 08/12/10 04:27 PM
Re: Stevens Alaska Crash
[Re: DannyL]
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Member
Registered: 02/22/08
Posts: 103
Loc: SE Alaska
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On a personal note, you guys are on to something with this "vest" concept. It's a great way to breath new life into an old fishing vest. It doesn't have to be expensive to be effective.
Also my microfix PLB goes EVERYWHERE with me. I consider it possible one of the best investments I have ever made.
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#205983 - 08/12/10 04:59 PM
Re: Stevens Alaska Crash
[Re: DannyL]
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Member
Registered: 02/22/08
Posts: 103
Loc: SE Alaska
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