Well, yeah, that's exactly my point actually.



OK, please discuss other weapons that are useful against a violent criminal wielding a gun. I'm not being a smart-ass. I'm open to hearing what your ideas here. The next best idea I've heard here for countering a violent criminal is "stand still" or "duck".



Yes, but I'll complete that line of thinking. I'm saying that guns are effective for countering a violent criminal, and that there should be no reckless security drills. Ever.

OK, I'll bite. A knife or a bat, or anything that can be used to the same effect. But the situation would be pretty desperate for you to try that. And it would require you a) to be up close and personal with the bad guys, b) physically agile (in which case you probably wouldn't be in the hospital in the first place?). Is it suicide to attack someone with a bat or a knife while they are aiming a gun at your chest? Yes, but trying to wield your gun would under those circumstances would be just as suicidal. Gaining the element of surprise would be important, gun or no gun.

Up close (within 6 feeet) I view knives as much more dangerous and lethal than guns. The statistics of survivability of knife wounds is substantially worse than gun wounds. You don't have to have any skills to do lethal damage, and it never jams or runs out of bullets.

A violent confrontation means a very high probability that you will end up hurt or dead, gun or no gun. In most cases a gun would be preferable, but it does not in any way guarantee you will be winning. It just improves the odds.

Modern terrorists have demonstrated one thing, and one thing only, repeatedly. Which is that you are going to be murdered, sorry, "executed" by them for your "crimes".

Fighting back, instantly, is the only hope for any of the hostages to survive. Even at the sacrifice of your own, and other people's lives.

Reconcile yourself to that.

Teach those SOAB'S that taking your kind hostage is a losing game.

And die well.

If there is one person with a gun and several victims, it is difficult for the perp to watch them all, at least in the beginning, before he groups them all together. This could be a good time to strike, if there is an oppportunity.

People tend to think 'trained terrorists' when the perp might be a strung-out junkie. How clearly is that person thinking in terms of tactics? Maybe not so well.

Weapons can be anything at hand. When I lived in SoCal, a man with a gun tried to rob a small store, and a group of people pelted him with canned goods. Of course, this was long ago, before current times when the other customers would probably join the perp and split the take.

Oh-oh, sounding cynical again, huh?

Sue

Well, I started this thread, and although it has wandered off into the ditch a couple of times, I appreciate every one's comments.

I have been working on some workplace violence related issues, more on the risk management side and less on the personal survival side, but I see a couple of common denominators:

-The goblins are usually "tough guys" in the mirror before they leave to do their dirty deed, but out on the field, they turn rather cowardly and avoid conflict. (That is why my 2 daughters, school teachers with strict protocols to follow, each know where the closest fire extinguishers are to their class rooms, because a control freak shooter will most often walk away from uncontrolled situations like my crazy kids with fire extinguishers! I also followed the advice of a random email blast that said in lieu of pepper spray, a good blast of wasp spray to the eyes will rock a goblins world, while not drawing attention like pepper spray would.

Secondly, it looks like the flip side risk to improper drilling is not having an established workplace violence plan in force:

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=NEWS_RELEASES&p_id=18000

BRIDGEPORT, Conn. - The U.S. Department of Labor's Occupational Safety and Health Administration has cited Danbury Hospital in Danbury, Conn., for failing to provide its employees with adequate safeguards against workplace violence. OSHA's action follows an inspection begun in January 2010, in response to worker complaints.

OSHA's inspection identified several instances during the past 18 months in which employees in the hospital's psychiatric ward, emergency ward and general medical floors were injured by violent patients. In addition, there have been about 25 cases over the past five years in which hospital employees lost workdays or were put on restricted duty after being injured by patients. OSHA found that the hospital's workplace violence program was incomplete and ineffective at preventing these incidents.

Any comments?