Hey guys, I remember in the past that nobody had come up with a retail source for the AMK Mini Rescue Flash Signal Mirror, the one that's only 2" x 1.5". It seems to have only been available as a component in premade kits from AMK though some other kit retailers include it as well.
In the time since, has anyone found a retail source for this little unit? I've got a few of the regular sized ones, and I know that bigger is better for signal mirrors, but I have a micro-PSK project where that little mirror would be an asset. I hate the idea of shelling out the money for the mediocre AMK SOL kit just to get the mirror.
Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 471
Loc: London England
Ranger Rick sells a folding one (or of course you could make your own by backing a few small mirrors with duct tape). He also sells a 2 inch by 6 inch one that folds down to 2 inches by 2 inches, but only as part of one of his inexpensive kits. The Sock
<FOLDING SIGNAL MIRROR – The only folding signal mirror on the <market, when closed up it's just 1 x 2 inches in size, when <opened it's 2 x 3 inches. It's so compact and light you <shouldn't have any problems finding a place to store it. Either <carry it in your pocket or any size survival, made of durable <acrylic plastic and only $3.50 each, shipped from Italy.
_________________________
The world is in haste and nears its end – Wulfstan II Archbishop of York 1014.
I have the Mayday signal mirror. It is not the same mirror you are asking about but it performs well. Mayday Signal Mirror
I have tested this mirror with an airplane and a 2x3" mirror from the NRA survival kit. I am in the Civil Air Patrol and set out a practice Emergency Locator Transmitter (ELT) during a practice search exercise.
When the plane got close enough I began signaling; alternating between the two mirrors. The crew in the plane was able to spot both mirrors and reported that the larger mirror was easier to see. They didn't say that the larger mirror was vastly better, just that it was easier to spot. I feel that the performance of both mirrors was acceptable.
I did notice that aiming was quicker and easier with the larger mirror. I honestly can't say if it was me, or the mirror.
I now use the small mirror in my hiking/backpacking gear and have gone to the larger mirror for my flight bag.
#202646 - 05/29/1006:59 PMRe: source for the little AMK "mini" signal mirror?
[Re: Glock-A-Roo]
rafowell
Enthusiast
Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 261
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: Glock-A-Roo
Hey guys, I remember in the past that nobody had come up with a retail source for the AMK Mini Rescue Flash Signal Mirror, the one that's only 2" x 1.5". <snip>
In the time since, has anyone found a retail source for this little unit? <snip>
Another possibility is to trim a regular AMK Rescue Flash 2"x3" mirror to the 2"x1.5" size. There are many drawbacks: labor, the risk of damaging/distorting/delaminating the mirror, and the mirror surface at the cut edges might be subject to corrosion (though you could apply sealant). If all went well, you'd have your 2"x1.5" mirror with mesh retroreflective aimer.
As mentioned above, there are other signal mirrors on the market that are smaller than the standard 2"x3" size, such as the BCB 2"x2" "Mayday" mirror mentioned above. Besides those mentioned above, the French and Swiss Air Forces use a 2"x2" glass mirror with a solid retroreflective aimer. While the French unit is small, and probably brighter than the plastic alternatives, it is thicker, heavier, thicker and more expensive than them. The only place I've seen the French mirror offered in the US is here, at $24 + S&H. French 2"x2" signal mirror at Deutsche Optik
_________________________
A signal mirror should backup a radio distress signal, like a 406 MHz PLB (ACR PLB)(Ocean Signal PLB)
#202655 - 05/30/1001:02 AMAMK "mini" signal mirror vs BCB Mayday Mirror
[Re: rauburg]
rafowell
Enthusiast
Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 261
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: rauburg
I have the Mayday signal mirror. It is not the same mirror you are asking about but it performs well. Mayday Signal Mirror
I have tested this mirror with an airplane and a 2x3" mirror from the NRA survival kit. <...> The crew in the plane was able to spot both mirrors and reported that the larger mirror was easier to see. They didn't say that the larger mirror was vastly better, just that it was easier to spot. I feel that the performance of both mirrors was acceptable.<...>
I'd love to hear more particulars about your test - range, sun to target angle, airplane altitude, airspeed. I have yet to locate a cooperative pilot for signal mirror testing. I do have some WWII RAF test reports on 2"x2" steel mirrors (low reflectivity), and the RAF (unlike the US Navy, USAF, and USCG) felt that, since the 2"x2" steel mirrors seemed to be bright enough to travel the range at which a survivor could see a small airplane, that they were big and bright enough. ( I'm actually supposed to be putting those reports online so you folks can see them, rather than chatting here).
Myself, I'm more comfortable with larger mirrors, and every US Government document and photo I've seen referring to US Government issue signal mirrors refers to mirrors that are 2"x3" or larger.
However, in the realm of 2"x2" or smaller plastic signal mirrors, the Mini Rescue Flash seems the brightest. The beam from my 1.5"x2" Mini Rescue Flash™ (American Medical Kits) is much tighter and brighter than my 2"x2" Mayday Signal Mirror (BCB International), based on today's test*. See the comparison of the beam brightness at right.
All other things being equal, the Mini will be more visible than the Mayday, visible at longer range, and it is smaller, as well.
The Mayday mirror has some advantages over the Mini: it is widely available, comes with a lanyard, floats, is inexpensive, and has instructions on the back.
The Mini Rescue Flash isn't perfect. As noted, it doesn't seem available by itself, it doesn't float, and doesn't come with a lanyard. After 1 year in my trunk (in Southern California) mine shows some signs of delamination - likely because of the heat cycles. Unlike most signal mirrors, the Mini lacks self-contained instructions on the back. The back (shown here) http://www.equipped.org/pp/briefs/pic_amk_sol.htm#d says to go to www.adventuremedicalkits.com for instructions, rarely an option when you get lost. Even if you (as you should) try to learn to use the mirror prior to getting lost, finding the instructions at the website is a real challenge.
The closest I've found is this AMK product video: "Ed Viesturs Survival Essentials", which covers signal mirror use starting about 30 seconds in, and is more easily found on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV_kVLnydlU
I did notice that aiming was quicker and easier with the larger mirror. I honestly can't say if it was me, or the mirror. <...>
I didn't try this myself, but I do notice that the sighting window on most mirrors is larger than that in the Mayday mirror. =========== * Test Description I took both mirrors, which have been together in my trunk since last summer, and propped them on my driveway, as shown, so as to reflect the sun onto the back of my darkened garage, 33 feet away. I then photographed the beam.
Edited by rafowell (05/30/1005:12 AM) Edit Reason: Inline photo
_________________________
A signal mirror should backup a radio distress signal, like a 406 MHz PLB (ACR PLB)(Ocean Signal PLB)
Thanks for the info. Sounds like I have not overlooked a source for the small AMK mirror. I am reluctant to chop the larger one down, not knowing if there will be a detrimental effect on its performance.
I will keep an eye out for a good sale on the AMK SOL kit in order to harvest the mirror from it.
Sorry for not getting back quicker, I have been away from the computer today.
I can't remember the month of the search and rescue practice. It wasn't winter though because I remember that it was warm.
The time of day was late morning, almost noon. I live in West Texas and the terrain was flat with no obstructions.
I quickly learned that the sun and the target needed to be in front of me. It was just too difficult to try and aim if the angles between the plane and the sun were too large.
It was a good test though and a good experience. And from it, I would carry the largest mirror that I could. A glass mirror would probably be even better.
Check and see if you have a Civil Air Patrol squadron in your area and, if you do, give them a call. Maybe they can help.
#202725 - 05/31/1006:00 AMRe: source for the little AMK "mini" signal mirror
[Re: rauburg]
rafowell
Enthusiast
Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 261
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: rauburg
I quickly learned that the sun and the target needed to be in front of me. It was just too difficult to try and aim if the angles between the plane and the sun were too large.
Yes, retroreflective aimers only work out to a sun-to-target angle of about 135 deg., and it gets pretty tricky as you approach that angle. Beyond that, you have fall back on another method, such as using your hand as a foresight. With the sun behind you, even before the angle reaches 135 degrees, your head can get between the mirror and the sun. One USAF survival manual trick for getting your head out of the way is to lie on your back. (here's a photo of 11 people doing so, with an amazing variety of signal mirrors: Using Signal Mirrors with the sun behind you ) In the unlikely case you happen to have two mirrors, you can use one to reverse the sun so the sun-target angle for your signal mirror is within 135 degrees - the old tripod-mounted Heliographs came with two mirrors, for just that purpose.
Originally Posted By: rauburg
It was a good test though and a good experience. And from it, I would carry the largest mirror that I could. A glass mirror would probably be even better.
Yes, while my EDC mirror is a 2"x3" Rescue Flash, when I go to the mountains, I add a 3"x5" MIL-M-18371E USAF glass mirror from the 1960s. The 12"x12" glass mirror in my trunk is intended for experiments, not survival, though I'd certainly use it if it came to that.
Originally Posted By: rauburg
Check and see if you have a Civil Air Patrol squadron in your area and, if you do, give them a call. Maybe they can help.
Excellent suggestion. Looking around the web, I've read about several CAP experiments with signal mirrors.
Edited by rafowell (05/31/1006:04 AM) Edit Reason: Updated photo link to one linking back to other pages
_________________________
A signal mirror should backup a radio distress signal, like a 406 MHz PLB (ACR PLB)(Ocean Signal PLB)
Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: United Kingdom.
Originally Posted By: rafowell
Originally Posted By: rauburg
I have the Mayday signal mirror. It is not the same mirror you are asking about but it performs well. Mayday Signal Mirror
I have tested this mirror with an airplane and a 2x3" mirror from the NRA survival kit. <...> The crew in the plane was able to spot both mirrors and reported that the larger mirror was easier to see. They didn't say that the larger mirror was vastly better, just that it was easier to spot. I feel that the performance of both mirrors was acceptable.<...>
I'd love to hear more particulars about your test - range, sun to target angle, airplane altitude, airspeed. I have yet to locate a cooperative pilot for signal mirror testing. I do have some WWII RAF test reports on 2"x2" steel mirrors (low reflectivity), and the RAF (unlike the US Navy, USAF, and USCG) felt that, since the 2"x2" steel mirrors seemed to be bright enough to travel the range at which a survivor could see a small airplane, that they were big and bright enough. ( I'm actually supposed to be putting those reports online so you folks can see them, rather than chatting here).
Myself, I'm more comfortable with larger mirrors, and every US Government document and photo I've seen referring to US Government issue signal mirrors refers to mirrors that are 2"x3" or larger.
However, in the realm of 2"x2" or smaller plastic signal mirrors, the Mini Rescue Flash seems the brightest. The beam from my 1.5"x2" Mini Rescue Flash™ (American Medical Kits) is much tighter and brighter than my 2"x2" Mayday Signal Mirror (BCB International), based on today's test*. See the comparison of the beam brightness at right.
All other things being equal, the Mini will be more visible than the Mayday, visible at longer range, and it is smaller, as well.
The Mayday mirror has some advantages over the Mini: it is widely available, comes with a lanyard, floats, is inexpensive, and has instructions on the back.
The Mini Rescue Flash isn't perfect. As noted, it doesn't seem available by itself, it doesn't float, and doesn't come with a lanyard. After 1 year in my trunk (in Southern California) mine shows some signs of delamination - likely because of the heat cycles. Unlike most signal mirrors, the Mini lacks self-contained instructions on the back. The back (shown here) http://www.equipped.org/pp/briefs/pic_amk_sol.htm#d says to go to www.adventuremedicalkits.com for instructions, rarely an option when you get lost. Even if you (as you should) try to learn to use the mirror prior to getting lost, finding the instructions at the website is a real challenge.
The closest I've found is this AMK product video: "Ed Viesturs Survival Essentials", which covers signal mirror use starting about 30 seconds in, and is more easily found on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV_kVLnydlU
I did notice that aiming was quicker and easier with the larger mirror. I honestly can't say if it was me, or the mirror. <...>
I didn't try this myself, but I do notice that the sighting window on most mirrors is larger than that in the Mayday mirror. =========== * Test Description I took both mirrors, which have been together in my trunk since last summer, and propped them on my driveway, as shown, so as to reflect the sun onto the back of my darkened garage, 33 feet away. I then photographed the beam.
I'd say that advert (which is what it is) ommits a few thing's. Like the need for a quality knife, insulation under you and the need to get out of the wind!
Oh, and the whistle sucks.
Serious advice to our readers: Buy the Ritter pack (see ETS Home page)(Top right on this page) and add a AMK bivvy bag or blanket.
I'll leave the knive choice to the reader.
_________________________
I don't do dumb & helpless.
Serious advice to our readers: Buy the Ritter pack (see ETS Home page)(Top right on this page) and add a AMK bivvy bag or blanket.
I'll leave the knive choice to the reader.
Absolutely!
You also need to make informed choices about how to obtain drinking water.
I also recommend that you augment that kit with the Doug Ritter mk5 knife as a backup to your main knife. That way you always have a reliable knife even if your main knife is lost, unsuitable for your present company or left at home for other reasons.
Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: United Kingdom.
As it happens, I have a Mk5. It's ok within it's limits. Personally I prefer a Swiss Army Knife. One Handed Trekker for choice. If local laws mean you are limited to a sliplock then any SAK that has a saw on it.
_________________________
I don't do dumb & helpless.
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