Jeff - Were you poor in law school?

Nicely stated, Jeff M.

I dont buy the internet argument for a number of reasons. Pretty much every major big box store I go in has a computer kiosk in it near the customer service desk that says something like "career opportunities" or the like. Meaning that if you are looking for a job and cant fill it out online you can fill it out on the computer provided by the store for job ops.

Outside of that most fast food places still hand out and take paper applications.

Most small businesses dont post only online they post on radio stations and the sign in the front window.

When I hear people talk about wages and how they are too low I get a little frustrated. Labor is a product and the cost of a product is set by what the market will bear. If a wage is set too low a place will have difficulty filling the position(s). This is what kills me about people who protest against big box stores and how they take advantage of employees by paying low wages. If that job wont pay your bills you either need to review your bills OR not take the job. If you have no other job you should take it and continue looking for a better job while putting a few dollars in your pocket or paying down some of your debt.


The housing issue and rent vs. own: You pay higher or high rent for the advantage of mobility. At most it is a 12 month expense/investment whereas a house can be a 10-30 year expense/investment. Not everyone should be a homeowner. If you dont know if you will have a job in a year you shouldnt be buying a house unless you can pay cash and have a surplus.

I hear a lot of responses saying that poor people are not stupid or lazy. You can be smart and not know how to manage money, you can be motivated and make bad choices. Most people are a product of their environment. Either you are motivated to change because of your environment or you buy into the lifestyle that it is easier to get $X from the government check than it is to get $X+10% from a 30 hour/week job or that getting a job will cause you to have to pay more for rent so why bother or that $250 today is what I need and I will worry about the $300 I have to pay back next week/month then.

If it isn't by choice than what is it? If one person can make it out of poverty and another cant why is that?

Yes, and before, too. Not now.

In my previous post I made the comment that while it's easy to hold the ideal that hard work always results in success, in reality equal amounts of hard work don't result in equal amounts of success.

An inequality in success could be due to any number of reasons from bad decisions to bad luck, from internal factors or external factors.

I can only imagine how difficult law school would be having no money. I've worked throughout school and I'm not poor (though I'm not one of the countless people driving a BMW/Mercedes/Lexus/Convertible muscle car either) and just the burden of books and rent is not easy task on a part time student's wage.

I would agree, that ideal is incorrect. A guy shoveling gravel may not make as much money as a guy driving a delivery truck. What separates the two if it isnt choices along the line?

One guy invested in himself (getting his CDL, keeping a clean driving record, etc) and the other possibly did not OR chose not to take a job driving a truck because the hours are too long, the commute too far, or anything else.

What I am saying is that there is more than just the choice to work hard on the clock. There is the choice of doing your homework when you are a kid, going to school and getting good grades, learning for yourself what right from wrong is, taking advantage of opportunities afforded you (the library is free, a television isnt). Investing in yourself instead of relying on someone else, amazing concept. If you continuously rely on someone else for your day to day, what happens when they cant do it any more?

I worked in EMS and saw homes that were trashed, it doesnt cost a dollar to put all the trash that is in the floor in a grocery bag and toss it in the dumpster of your trailer park or apartment complex, in fact it would save you money if you ever moved out. Or calling 911 for emergency birth control and demanding a ride to the hospital, medicare will pay for it.

I teach for a local college and it is frustrating to hear some of the students complain about the grades they get but they refuse to do the homework that I dont even grade for correct answers but simply if they answered all the questions or made an attempt. The answers are in the back of the workbook.

My wife is a medical student (after 10 years of working EMS) in her third year and spends her days working under a physician. She tells me of patients complaining that they cant afford multiple subsidized $4 prescriptions so they only get the pain meds and not the antibiotics that would actually cure the infection causing the pain. OR they admit to smoking yet they say the gov needs to buy the $4 meds for them on top of the rest of the subsidized medical care they get.

Do we say it is bad luck when a hiker goes out into the woods unprepared (mentally, physically, spiritually, logistically) and dies or is injured? But we look at someone who smokes a pack a day and gets cancer and say he was unlucky? Then we complain that he cant afford healthcare but his pack a day habit probably would have paid for all of his healthcare bills if he put it into a bank account instead of his ashtray.

My long overdue point is that generations are not being taught values that keep them out of poverty because it has become really easy to be impoverished with so many systems in place to help those below the poverty line. Values like do the right thing even if someone isnt looking, always have a back up plan, be prepared, be responsible for yourself, etc.

Bad luck could be reading a want ad for a delivery driver job because you were shoveling rocks late the day the ad ran in the paper in an attempt to make a few more dollars. Bad luck could be not getting the job when it was a toss up between you and another applicant that was equally qualified for the job. Bad luck could be the idea that there are just so many jobs to be had and it's not always a case of room for one more at the next level. You can say that there is no such thing as bad luck if you like, but there are things that are beyond our control that impact our lives in a negative manner.

Another thought is the idea that our society desires that a large segment of the population be paid low wages if not directly, by our spending habits. We want cheaper so we can have more, and that impacts the number of decent well paying jobs that can be had. This idea, mixed with the fact that business is always driven by more profit for the same amount, if not less, expenditure works against the capability of everyone being able to rise socioeconomically.

Regarding the idea that we aren't teaching solid morals to the next generation, and that is causing poverty, it could well be part of the problem not only at the bottom, but at the top as well, passed on by unethical business practices that ensure a lower class.

Those examples dont really pan out, get up 5 min earlier and read the paper in the morning, invest in yourself so you are the better candidate even if it is borrowing a button up shirt from your buddy or family member so you look more presentable during the interview. Go the extra step so you look eager in your actions and not your words.

Sure there are things outside of our control, I will give you that but more times then not confidence lends to our luck. We gain confidence by working to better ourselves. As long as you believe that whatever is holding you back is out of your hands you will be correct.

We could knitpick the concepts to death providing point and counterpoint on an example if you like.

I used to get up and go to work at a hard labor job before the morning paper came and there are a lot of people that do the same. I also worked a third shift at another job and didn't get the paper until almost noon.

You assume that one of the people didn't get the job because they were underdressed or not chipper enough. They were equally qualified. Perhaps one of the applicants was the same color as the employer and that made the decision as to whether they were hired or not.

As for the concept that "As long as you believe that whatever is holding you back is out of your hands you will be correct." It's nice to apply a rule of thumb to concepts, but it doesn't always make them true. I'd like to run the Boston Marathon in 2 hours and 15 minutes, and no matter whether I believe I can or not, my physiology says it isn't going to happen.

You believe the reason for the majority of the cases of people remaining in poverty is choice, I don't. Having been there 3 different times in my life, from what I've seen I disagree. Your experiences lead you to believe something different from mine.

I think it's safe to say that we're not going to agree on this subject.