The situation is Tennessee is a good example of why we need a good pair of shoes and rapidly accessible gear in our cars. While I like to think I'd avoid places where my car will get flooded out, should I find myself in one of those places I want to be able to grab the few things I need and abandon it in short order. At this point, my car is not properly setup for such a situation. I think I can get it there pretty easily though.

I keep a waterproof bag in the trunk with a sleeping bag, bivy sack, and sleeping mat. I think I just need to compress that stuff, add some basic fire making, and a water container. Ideally I should get a pair of shoes, socks, and change of clothes in it, but I'm not sure that'll happen space wise.

Equipment reorganization, here I come! (but it will have to wait until May 19th)

I probably should say, I also keep some water, calories, a pry bar and various other things in my car, but they're not so easily accessible as to facilitate my taking them with me when I'm quickly leaving my car.

I'm surprised that we haven't seen more here on the boards regarding the flooding in Tennessee.

Regarding leaving cars quickly, it's definitely a good idea to have some survival equipment ready and capable of being pulled out rapidly, but I wonder if in flooding incidents like these it wouldn't be better to keep the BOB or similar with you rather than leave it in the car. It seems as if there is sufficient warning prior to the event the gear would be safer in hand because most likely wherever your car is will be flooded more quickly than a permanent structure.

Or, is this a case of not worrying about the emergency kit in the car because the kit for the house or the one at work is nearby.

I feel I should clarify, especially knowing that a lot of people who died in Nashville were in their cars.

It might have helped if they had some emergency equipment with them that was easily accessible from the passenger compartment, but there was a flood warning in effect and everyone was warned not to drive at all.

Which isn't to say that I don't feel for the victims and their families, but situational awareness would have better served most of the people in this situation.

This is just an opinion. I could be wrong.

A fast moving/rising flood situation it's easy to become separated from a kit that's not on you. Carrying a small kit at all times would be wise. At best all will go well and neither kit will be needed. At worst you'll have just the kit on your back to make it through a wet cold night.

I already have an EDC backpack. Lotsa stuff in there that would be good. It doubles as my gym back and is the bag riding in the truck to carry odds and ends that don't carry well in pockets. Some of the contents change with the season and some with my daily activity. Water is always fresh, bottle is refilled just before I leave each day.

Tailoring the backpack for a flood situation would be a no-brainer. Haven't thought about the specifics of what I'd add, but then I don't live in TN. . .

I should be more clear, I wouldn't leave stuff in my car and go about my day, nor would I likely be on highways (I'd just lay low someplace I think is safe) during an event like this (Blizzard, hurricane, what have you). I'm just saying, I saw cars up to their roof in water on the highway, while the other lane was almost bone dry with a jersey barrier in between. If I were to be stuck in traffic with rising water, I'd want to be able to grab a bag, jump the median and hoof it to relative safety.

I do keep things like a knife, flashlight, fire starting equipment, etc, on my, at all times, but having a quickly accessible bag-o-stuff to back that up wouldn't hurt.

In fact if one read's DR disaster prep car kit he suggest keeping it all in a backpack...I'm just a bad listener

Just be careful of carrying a pack around during flooding conditions, it could be become a death trap. Imagine walking with you pack in knee or waist deep water unable to see what type of surface on which you are walking, suddenly you fall through an open manhole, The weight of the pack may prevent you from resurfacing.

Perhaps having a hiking pole or hiking staff to use as a probe would be more useful.

Situational awareness is critical in conditions such as these and you need to think through and before (the “what if” game) you make a plan of action.

Pete

I think my experience walking through countless marshes, etc, duck hunting has bestowed upon me better than average wading sensibilities. Also, the "pack" I happen to keep in my trunk is a dry bag, so it'd actual provide awkward flotation, though, if water was "that" deep I'd probably take it off and use it as a hang on float. Anyways, in a flood, my goal would be to know the weather is coming and stay the heck out of flooded areas. It'd only be in some poorly planned situation you'd see see me out running around in that garbage. I don't live or spend a great deal of time down stream from a major damn, so I should see this stuff coming.

Most likely, the pack would be floating or at least be close to neutrally buoyant. A water bottle in water weighs nothing. Clothes in your pack trap a lot of air and floats for quite a while, until all that air is squeezed out and replaced by water, then they become neutral or slightly heavier than water. Heavy tools are obviously heavier than water. If you pack a lot of tools your pack will drag you down. If you don't, your pack will float, at least for a while.

That being said, there are lots of situations in water where a backpack on your back is the last thing you want. For one thing, it's hard to swim. And the pack will get entangled in all sort of things.

So there is flooding in the area, people have been warned not to drive into some areas, and as usual - people ignore the warnings.

It's not like the flood sneaks up on ya. There were warnings and alerts. Water is one powerful force, don't be messing with it. There is not a thing inside your house you need, other than family and they should be with you, safe someplace that isn't flooding. Stuff can be replaced, people can't.

For once, listen to the nice people from the Guv'mint and don't do stupid stuff.

I think the idea of a BOB in a car is nice, I've got one. But it's sort of academic, as my car and BOB will not be in a flood if I can help it. Flash floods are one thing, the flooding in TN was another.

Keeping supplies in the vehicle has some ups and downs. Being able to get to it rapidly is a valid concern. There are a few situations where bailing out, ideally with your gear, would be the best option.

But there is also the fact that any gear exposed might make your car a target for theft. Survival supplies should ease your worries. Having to worry that your stuff might wander off while you sleep isn't very comforting.

Also if the stuff is in the passenger compartment some consideration has to be given to what happens to it if you make a panic stop or radical maneuver. Unless the stuff is very firmly strapped down if you slam of the brake it is going to take off to the front of the car. If you happen to be in the way your going to get hit. Having fifty pounds of tools, tins, and bottled water bounced off your skull isn't the ideal way to start an emergency.

My estimation is that there might not be a single strategy that is best in all situation. Stored in the trunk the stuff is secured out of sight and unlikely to bounce off your skull.

If and when flooding seems to be the biggest danger and bailing out a possibility I might move the packs into the passenger compartment but keep them on the floor. Strapped down if possible.

It isn't like Tennessee wasn't at least marginally aware that there had been a lot of rain and flooding might be a problem. That would be the time to move the stuff to a spot easy to get to and to work on driving as safely as possible so the stuff doesn't end up bouncing around the passenger compartment like a pinball.

From reading this thread, here's how I summarize a strategy to this type of flood disaster:

1. Listen to the government warning and don't be in the flood.

2. If you're in the flood anyway for whatever reason, have a survival plan.

3. Your carry bag and gear should be flood-appropriate. For example, a backpack is not good for swimming, and too many tools can be too heavy.

...By the way, Art, your post reads like a general argument against keeping any kind of car kit, or maybe I read that wrongly.

As an aside, a few thoughts re "packs dragging you down:"

That's not necessarily the case. When canoeing, I have turned fairly heavy backpacks into buoyancy-positive flotation devices. For example, you pack extra canteens and only fill them half full. You double-heavy-bag every item to keep water out -- but also keep air in. As a result, many old-time canoes would float even when completely swamped -- as long as the packs were tied in.

Some hard-core backpackers have adopted this philosophy for crossing rivers. Air mattresses, Therm-a-Rests, and even the classic blue foamie mattress can provide a lot of positive flotation.

So a heavy pack can in fact be turned into an asset, flotation-wise.

My $0.02.

I have, and often recommend, a car kit so I'm not against them. But, as with all things, a car kit, in my case a truck kit, has issues of its own. It can be stolen, the temperature extremes take a toll, and if its behind you and not tied down when you stop fast your kit tries to kill you. I used to carry several heavy toolboxes in a small car and one day I stopped really fast to keep from hitting a kid on a bike. Those tool boxes ended up on the dash and hood. Something of a fluke that I wasn't brained with one of them.

I had recently picked up a carpet that was being tossed out by someone and stuffed it in the hatchback behind the drivers seat. Being light and hard up against the back of the seat when I stopped it didn't do much. The toolbox that I had shifted to the right just barely missed my right shoulder and went half way through the windshield. Had it been where it usually rode my head would have been driven through the glass by the toolbox while my body was held back by the steering wheel. Would have ruined my whole day.

As it was the glass replacement is, by law, always covered so they spent $400 putting a new windshield into a $500 car and I flogged it like a rented mule for another year. It was a car so ugly that people would get out of its way for fear some of the ugly would rub off. I had a love/hate relationship with that car.

There is a difference in using a pack or any other floatation device (in front of you), even a PFD to float in a controlled condition and another when you are suddenly plunged into deep water or swiftwater. I wear a rescue PFD that provides 23 lbs of floatation, if I jump into the water; I submerge for 2-3 seconds before coming to the surface, which is no problem because I am expecting the initial shock of being submerged. Additionally in rapidly moving water and depending upon your profile (with gear), the increased surface area can act as a wing or plane forcing you down. It is a big no-no to wear a fire helmet in the swiftwater environment, since the large brim on the back with act as a wing, which when hit by moving water will force you underwater. If you look at kayaking helmets or water rescue helmets, they have little or no brim and usually have vent holes to allow water to escape from the helmet. A backpack worn on the back and hit by moving water would likely have a similar effect and force you down. I would agree that a watertight bag or backpack with trapped air held in the arms in front of you would be a useful floatation device, but if you are wearing it on your back be prepared for an unpleasant experience. I would suggest trying it out under controlled conditions, so you can see the dynamics before you trust it during an emergency.

Pete

I agree, a buoyant pack would be problematic in many ways -- especially in fast-moving water. Good advice too regarding testing and practice, since if you're tightly strapped in the pack could tend to hold you face-down in the water (yikes). I know that backpackers normally undo sternum straps and hip belts before fording mountain rivers.

The bottom line is that there is no good substitute for a PFD. But how many have one in their car?

If I lived in those areas that get flooding, I'd have a personal flotation device in my car and in my attic. I'd also have a raft in my attic.

However, where I live in California, I don't have those things because lots of other gear are more likely to be important.

I think a surpising number of people in coastal areas have PFDs in their cars, not the majority by any means, but most of my friends from home do because they/we boat so often. Have to have the life jacket for the Wednesday night it blows (we race sailboats on Wednesdays)!

The boats always have the sort of basic orange PFDs, but we usually bring our own more comfortable type.

Re raft in the attic - While I wouldn't knock someone for going this route, I'd rather just prep a boat pre flooding conditions. I couldn't afford a quality raft for the attic and I'd rather have the boat than a mediocre raft.

How would I prep the boat you might ask? It depends entirely on what sort of flooding I expect. A hurricane is the most likely cause where I live, so I'd tie several boats of various size down at elevations unlikely to flood, then post windy event, if for some reason (A medical emergency is all I can think of) I needed to go out into the flood waters, they'd be handy.

By raft in attic, I meant something basic. A surfboard would do the trick for survival purposes. Some folks in Katrina flooding would have found such a tool to be valuable. There were quite a few people sitting on their roofs. I know of some people dying in Katrina because they went to their attics, water consumed their homes, and they didn't have proper tools to break through the roof. I understand how that could happen to an elderly person or someone with limited physical abilities. A raft or surfboard in the attic seems to have a high benefit/cost ratio.

I'm w/you on an axe in the attic

I have both read, and been told by someone who grew up in the Netherlands, that quite a few of the older homes there have a small boat and an axe in the attic. The reason comes down to a historic event when the levies broke one night and a lot of people drown.

I think that living in a flood zone is pretty bad. I would avoid it if at all possible. But given a lack of options a john boat, axe, and some supplies in the attic and a gable end that is designed to be removed makes a lot of sense.

I've posted a few times here about my 100% non-hypothetical car kit that was evolved over the years as a result of being in the fire and rescue services. One of the most critical things that I have in that kit is a change of clothes and shoes. These are the most bulky and annoying things to deal with, and I've found that they are often the most important. Now, admittedly, I found myself in oddball situations like wading into rivers to help launch a rescue boat or arriving on-scene not needing turnout gear and not having rain gear handy and getting soaked, but all in all, a change of clothes, socks and shoes is really important. I pack zip-off shorts/nylon pants, a long-sleeve T shirt, a polar fleece sweatshirt, socks, underwear and a pair of sneakers. I consider these as important as water in my vehicle.

Other stuff in my NHCK (Non-Hypothetical Car Kit) has always been proven to be needed in actual emergencies and I've actually USED everything in it it for myself and others.

I'd say the most unexpected thing I've added to the kit over the years - because it turned out useful in many situations - is waterproof paper. So many times I needed to jot a note in wet/humid conditions, and having Rite In the Rain pads are super-handy. Cell phone chargers that use AA batteries are a must as well, and so are a bunch of lithium AA and AAA cells.

I’ve always raised my eyes when reading various recommendations for car kits and the lack of specifics in the way of clothing and footwear. Depending upon locale and the season, simply tossing in another pair of shoes may or may not be adequate. While clothing, especially technical, can be rolled into a stuff sack and doesn’t take much room, footwear presents more challenges in the way of packing and finding the room in a vehicle. While there isn’t an easy answer to packing and storing adequate footwear, I consider it important enough to both my survival and comfort that I always carry hiking boots and at least during fall, winter and spring carry knee high waterproof boots as well. I have a dedicated boot bag that either hangs in my SUV or rides in plastic gear box. Various smart-wool socks are also in the bag including a couple pair of the poly liner socks. I also carry a pair of crocs as they are so comfy to drive in and would be great if one had to use a public shower. I only carry footwear that I have actually used and tested as if you had to actually walk out comfort would have a whole new meaning!

Good point. In terms of footwear, I find that hiking sneakers are best for me, they hit all the main needs.

Re Rite in the Rain - I don't even consider that part of a "kit" I just have a pad of it in my glove box (and have for at least 8 years) that I use all the time.

Re Footwear - I often have a pair of muck boots in the trunk that I've walked countless miles in, and actually run in a bit as well. My biggest problem is any shoes I really want to walk that far in I want to have to wear all the time! I guess I have an old pair of hiking boots I could test and leave in the car if they're still worth anything.

Best thing I've done for my feet (and I've posted about it elsewhere on this forum) is start running in Vibram Fivefingers.

I actually forgot the fivefingers in February when I was running a slow 10k (I can only run slow) so I wore water shoes that happened to be available. They worked fine. When I used to run in sneakers, not having sneakers would have meant I'm not going anywhere.

Now foot fatigue from bad shoes is a thing of the past. I still couldn't run very far in say dress shoes due to likely rubbing though. Also, if anyone starts going out in fivefingers I think they'll be impressed with how well their feet deal w/cold weather so long as you're moving! I was at least.

I keep a pad of rite in the rain in my SUV too.

Re muck boots, I basically live in the knee high tack classic's during the fall, winter and spring. The only time they fall short is on ice as the traction isn't that good on ice. That's the only reason for adding the hiking boots in my rig during those seasons.

I still can't find good shoes on ice, but I've gotten pretty good at getting around on the stuff, so I guess I'm good w/it.

If I have to say push an aluminum boat across a frozen pond, I put crampons on

I have never found any boots good for ice either. Some sole designs are worse than others, but none are all that good.

There are some metal cleats made for icy conditions that slip over shoes and boots. Has anyone ever tried those? I don't know whether they would work well or not.

Ice cleats: Some are good, some are crap. And some work reasonably well under a limited set of conditions. If you're really lucky the ones sold around here are the same as you find at your place...

Personally, I use boots (hiking boots) with a rubber sole that has a fair amount of friction on ice. The difference is huge, so normally I manage just fine without cleats.

Yeah, I don't know, I do a bit of ice boating, a good amount of duck hunting and skiing, so I do spend some time in icey conditions, and while crampons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crampons) certainly provide 100% traction, I find whatever is on my feet works fine as long as I keep my wits about me. I remember running between dorm buildings in college (University of Vermont) in snow storms wearing flip flops, shorts, and a tshirt, I'd slip and slide all over, but I never landed on my rear!

Then again, I have landed on my rear ice boating! Not such a big deal, fall gracefully

Hey guys,

I live in Clarksville Tennessee, along with Nashville and a few other places, we were hit pretty bad by the flooding. I can't speak much for the situation in Nashville, but I can speak of what happened here (maybe 40 minutes north of Nashville) from my limited perspective.

As a background, I live approximately 5 miles from the Cumberland river, which is what the city of Clarksville was originally built on. I commute daily to a university about a quarter mile away from the river. It, along with most of old downtown Clarksville, is situated on a plateau that rises perhaps 20-30 feet a few hundred meters from the actual river so they did not experience flooding directly. However, most of the smaller businesses lining the river (gas stations, pawn shops, etc) and low lying spots a significant distance away from the river were all swamped.

The flooding occurred during finals week at the university, and classes were canceled for two days. There are three main routes to the river / old downtown clarksville / the university, and two of which were closed completely.

The route I generally drive takes me over a bridge that spans a small offshoot of the Cumberland river. The water on a typical day is ~20-30 feet under the bridge, but a day after the rain the water was over the bridge and flooding businesses on the other side under several feet of water.

Because of the distance I live from the river, my house and immediate neighborhood was not significantly affected by the water, but there were several neighborhoods directly flooded (both poor and wealthier) and areas where power was down for a significant period of time.

When the flood warnings came I didn't really think much of it. We always get flood warnings during bad thunderstorms, but in the 8 years I've lived here we've never had flooding that I can recall.

The last day when it kept raining it really sank in for me that it was pretty serious. Because the school was closed I stayed off the roads near the river, but I did see user submitted pictures of the flood on our local news website, and recognized quite a few places that were under a serious amount of water.

So... at this point it started hitting me. With the wastewater treatment plant potentially underwater, and the storm sewers being overwhelmed, would the water be safe to drink and if so, how long? How long will the power be on?

There's a dam that feeds the region called wolf creek, and I remember hearing about it a long time ago and how it could put us under several feet of water by itself should it fail... it must be really stressed if we're experiencing record levels of flooding here. Would it hold out?

There was also a lot of RUMINT going around based on various texts with friends. Conflicting reports on which roads were closed, was the interstate closed, etc.

As it turns out, the waste water treatment plant was still ok, and the water probably was safe to drink although as a precaution I didn't drink it, but planned on treating / boiling it if it came down to having to use it until I heard definitively one way or the other. The local news did mention that they had to dump raw sewage into the river though and that they had no other choice (just caught a minute of that though so I didn't catch the whole story).

I had my general preps though I didn't need any of it. Household wise though, I don't own a generator and my parents use CPAP machines to breathe at night. A friend of mine lost power for days, and had that happen here it could have been pretty serious so I need to rectify that (just a matter of money though).

I have a verizon mifi which I didn't end up needing but it was nice to have an alternate way to access the internet in case the internet or power went out in my home. A scanner would have been nice too.

I was off work for most of the flooding because I had requested the time off so I could study for Finals, so I can't say how bad the rush was at walmart due to the flooding. I do remember most of the bottled water was gone though, and your general panic buying seemed to have occurred, though I don't think it was as bad as when Kentucky had their ice storm.

Overall thankfully we didn't lose many people, but there was millions worth of damage. We lost one of the largest job providers in the city, a regional call center for AT&T (convergies). Additionally the area is prone to sinkholes anyway, and I have a bad feeling that with water reaching places it never has in recent history we'll see some new sinkholes opening up in the future.

Sorry about how long winded that was, I'm pretty tired tonight!