#200809 - 04/23/10 02:45 PM
Alarm worked
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Old Hand
Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 745
Loc: NC
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So I got home from a quick trip out to get stuff and found my house alarm going off. The back door had been kicked in. The front door held, tho it's cracked, the garage door took a shot and held. Appears the back door took 4 or more kicks before the door finally failed. The alarm went off when the door opened. Looks like no one entered, they must have beat feet when the alarm went off. Nothing was taken, cats were fine. I called 911 and then cleared the house with the .357 while waiting on the cops. Cops got here quick enough once called. The alarm was unmonitored, but that'll change.
Lessons learned:
Alarms work.
3 inch screws hold door casings together.
Buy better doors next time around.
If the back door hadn't literally broken from the repeated kicks, I don't think anyone would have been able to get in.
Methinks I am hiding my truck in the garage for a bit while I am home alone and see what happens.
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#200811 - 04/23/10 03:01 PM
Re: Alarm worked
[Re: JBMat]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
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Determined buggers! And this happened while you took a "quick trip out"? That's scary. Is that timing coincidence?
Glad you're fine and nothing was taken. I think I personally would've refrained from clearing the home alone (I'm assuming that you didn't leave anyone home when you left).
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#200812 - 04/23/10 03:05 PM
Re: Alarm worked
[Re: JBMat]
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Old Hand
Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 966
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Random thoughts. After you get better doors, look for the next weakest link. Probably your windows. It is unlikely you'll be able to make it so they "can't get in", but hopefully make it more work than it is worth. Also, take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lock_bumping Look at getting locks that are resistant to this method since it is fast and easy. For windows, they have films, or when you replace your windows, consider getting ones with laminated glass. You can still get in, but it is more work. You'd probably be better off letting the police clear the house unless you had an immediate need (wife/kids in the house). Good luck. -john
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#200820 - 04/23/10 04:19 PM
Re: Alarm worked
[Re: JohnN]
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Old Hand
Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 745
Loc: NC
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No one but the cats were at home. I wasn't worried about clearing the house, as I was armed and pretty sure no one was around. It's not that big a house and not many place to hide.
Coincidence, I don't think so. A nearby rental house was recently rehabbed after a tenant moved out. The workmen had a clear view of my house, and other neighbors, and could guess our movements. My truck not being there was a giveaway no one was home. However, that truck's in the garage Monday, let us see who drops by.
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#200836 - 04/23/10 05:52 PM
Re: Alarm worked
[Re: JBMat]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1918
Loc: Washington, DC
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A nearby rental house was recently rehabbed after a tenant moved out. The workmen had a clear view of my house, and other neighbors, and could guess our movements. My truck not being there was a giveaway no one was home. However, that truck's in the garage Monday, let us see who drops by. That'd be my bet. It's a common correlation around here. A friend's rowhouse was accessed through a window air conditioning unit during the daytime and via a ladder. She's convinced it was one or more of the workmen who were renovating a rowhouse a few doors down. Thieves don't just randomly pick houses to rob. They case the place first. If you don't have a dog I highly recommend getting the biggest dog bowl you can find and leaving that on the back porch along with a large sterilized dog bone, "I Love My Rottweiler" door mat and a chain attached to a post. And of course, make sure you have adequate insurance. Sympathies on the damage and duress, but congrats on not suffering greater harm.
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#200838 - 04/23/10 06:04 PM
Re: Alarm worked
[Re: Dagny]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 01/25/09
Posts: 295
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A good friend who spent a lifetime in law enforcement told me that thieves hate houses with big dogs! My dogs drink out of stainless bowls in the house but I leave those big plastic dog bowls on the deck and by the entrance, along with a breed club decal on a couple of windows.
Glad they didn't do more damage, and sorry about the doors.
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#200839 - 04/23/10 06:22 PM
Re: Alarm worked
[Re: rebwa]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1918
Loc: Washington, DC
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A good friend who spent a lifetime in law enforcement told me that thieves hate houses with big dogs! My dogs drink out of stainless bowls in the house but I leave those big plastic dog bowls on the deck and by the entrance, along with a breed club decal on a couple of windows.
Glad they didn't do more damage, and sorry about the doors. Very wise. I have a "Fireman - Rescue my Dog!" sticker on front and rear windows. *** Happens to be true in my case but also informs potential intruders that they will be greeted by a carnivore with large fangs. Of course, if your house is being closely stalked then they may have surmised that no dog lives there. On the other hand, not everyone walks their dog. A friend whose suburban neighborhood had experienced a rash of break-ins took my advice to buy a "Beware of German Shepherd" sign which was emblazoned with a drawing of a GS. She also did the dog bowl, dog bone, doormat drill. I learned this strategy from the NRA's "Refuse To Be A Victim" seminar. So far, so good. *** Just to be clear for anyone who might infer otherwise: I don't advocate the stickers if you do not, in fact, have pets. If you have a pet and want to give them a chance in a fire, by all means display the stickers. But don't fake out the fireman with a false sticker.
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#200840 - 04/23/10 06:29 PM
Re: Alarm worked
[Re: JBMat]
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Paranoid?
Veteran
Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 1341
Loc: Virginia, US
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I'm glad that you weren't robbed.
I probably would have waited for the police to clear thee house before I thought about going in myself. I'm pretty selfish that way. LOL
_________________________
"Learn survival skills when your life doesn't depend on it."
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#200847 - 04/23/10 07:55 PM
Re: Alarm worked
[Re: JBMat]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
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A nearby rental house was recently rehabbed after a tenant moved out. The workmen had a clear view of my house, and other neighbors, and could guess our movements. It could also work the other way--punks see workmen and then move in when no one is home. I was just reading a really sad news story yesterday about some Habitat for Humanity homes being built in San Francisco. Took a year for volunteers to build these seven homes (in a cluster, I assume). The first tenant was supposed to move in in a week. But someone just came in and stole all the new appliances from all seven homes! Man, that's low!
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#200848 - 04/23/10 07:58 PM
Re: Alarm worked
[Re: Dagny]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland
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I have a "Fireman - Rescue my Dog!" sticker on front and rear windows. Happens to be true in my case but also informs potential intruders that they will be greeted by a carnivore with large fangs. I respectively request that if you (the generic “you all”) do not have a dog, please do not place one of these stickers on your window/door. While it is “standard practice” not to risk a human life for an animal, I can say that most, if not all Firefighters will make the extra effort to enter and search a burning building/home to rescue someone’s pet. Please do not endanger a Firefighter by placing a fictitious “Pet Rescue” sticker just to increase home security. While the same could be said for “fake” bowls, toys, etc. the “Rescue My Dog” sticker is crossing the line in my opinion. Pete
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#200850 - 04/23/10 08:02 PM
Re: Alarm worked
[Re: paramedicpete]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 01/25/09
Posts: 295
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I have a "Fireman - Rescue my Dog!" sticker on front and rear windows. Happens to be true in my case but also informs potential intruders that they will be greeted by a carnivore with large fangs. I respectively request that if you (the generic “you all”) do not have a dog, please do not place one of these stickers on your window/door. While it is “standard practice” not to risk a human life for an animal, I can say that most, if not all Firefighters will make the extra effort to enter and search a burning building/home to rescue someone’s pet. Please do not endanger a Firefighter by placing a fictitious “Pet Rescue” sticker just to increase home security. While the same could be said for “fake” bowls, toys, etc. the “Rescue My Dog” sticker is crossing the line in my opinion. Pete Good point Pete, I actually have two cats and two dogs and that is on stickers on my windows.
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#200851 - 04/23/10 08:30 PM
Re: Alarm worked
[Re: JohnN]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
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Cops have training, well most don't really have that much, but they do have insurance and a very nice health plan if injured or killed on the job.
Their ability to have backup on hand, flood a neighborhood with patrol cars, and get help if it goes south covers a lot of sins. It is pretty amazing how many police, sheriffs, highway patrol, military police, you name it, can show up on a 'shots fired', 'officer need assistance', 'officer down' call.
In one case officers from no less than five agencies showed up. Inside of ten minutes they had a small army. Kind of a letdown when the guy walked out and laid down on the ground and all those pretty guns got put away unfired.
Wearing body armor also helps.
My biggest worry clearing the house would be a lack of backup, criminals can get very creative under pressure and hide in places you might not have considered, and, because you never know when cops will show up, what happens if cops come in while you're slicing the pie. Cop sees an armed man sighting down a gun taking aim at a friend and ...
A cop who doesn't make his intentions clear, or a command you didn't hear, a frightened and jumpy rookie who gets the 'order to drop gun' and 'shoot at center of mass of non-compliant suspect holding gun' backwards.
A neighbor, or concerned workman, reports 'a burglar with a gun just went in' lines up poorly with you walking out with a gun and things can go sideways fast.
Easiest way to make a doorway more secure, from B&E and hurricane, is to rearrange the door so it opens out. Hinges will need non-removable pins and/or hinge plates that mate. Replacing the door with a commercial duty metal one is good but simply skinning both sides with plywood and/or sheet metal can make all but bombproof.
Taking the door frame out, planing the framing a quarter inch and installing 3-1/4" by 1/4" aluminum plates top to bottom with 3" screws 6" OC spreads impact loads and gives mounting screws a solid grip. The Door frame is reinstalled with 3" screws by pre-drilling into the aluminum. Latches and deadbolts have holes drilled through the aluminum. Between the stops and aluminum you have a door that can't be kicked or pried open. Even a battering ram takes time to get through because they have to break the structural framing to defeat it.
Windows get high impact film and/or Plexiglas screwed to the casing. Bars are cheap and effective. Cactus and thorn bush plantings under windows can do a lot to discourage intruders.
With all this just make sure that you have a way out, and some way for emergency services to get in, in case of fire or other emergency.
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#200854 - 04/23/10 09:11 PM
Re: Alarm worked
[Re: paramedicpete]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1918
Loc: Washington, DC
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I have a "Fireman - Rescue my Dog!" sticker on front and rear windows. Happens to be true in my case but also informs potential intruders that they will be greeted by a carnivore with large fangs. Please do not endanger a Firefighter by placing a fictitious “Pet Rescue” sticker just to increase home security. While the same could be said for “fake” bowls, toys, etc. the “Rescue My Dog” sticker is crossing the line in my opinion. Pete Be clear on this: I wasn't advocating fake fireman stickers. I just appreciate the side effect of my legitimate fireman stickers. People who have dogs or other pets should display the stickers.
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#200858 - 04/23/10 09:50 PM
Re: Alarm worked
[Re: paramedicpete]
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Old Hand
Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 966
Loc: Seattle, WA
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I respectively request that if you (the generic “you all”) do not have a dog, please do not place one of these stickers on your window/door. While it is “standard practice” not to risk a human life for an animal, I can say that most, if not all Firefighters will make the extra effort to enter and search a burning building/home to rescue someone’s pet. Please do not endanger a Firefighter by placing a fictitious “Pet Rescue” sticker just to increase home security. While the same could be said for “fake” bowls, toys, etc. the “Rescue My Dog” sticker is crossing the line in my opinion.
Pete
It is off-topic, but I'm curious. Is it possible to put information on-file with the fire department about things like this? I'm assuming not, but it seems like it could be useful. I wonder if attaching a waterproofed binder to the outside of the house labeled "EMERGENCY" or something like that would be useful. I could imagine including # and names of residents (including pets), emergency contact info, any serious medical conditions of residents, that kind of thing. I imagine you could use a small padlock that they could just snip off. I know this is kind of stupid question, but it seems that the police/fire department don't have emergency contact#s for a residence? At least I can't think of anywhere I've put something on file that they could access? Hmm. -john
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#200861 - 04/23/10 10:21 PM
Re: Alarm worked
[Re: JohnN]
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Journeyman
Registered: 04/13/10
Posts: 98
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I spent the last couple years selling and installing security systems (back in college now). I've done hundreds of houses, probably 3/4 of those had been broken into. I have a few thoughts to share with you.
First, thieves don't pick door locks, thats TV. It takes more time and skill than its worth, a crowbar is faster and easier, so don't spend your time worrying about commercial "pick proof" locks. The only reason to pick a lock to is to be able to leave a scene without people knowing you were there, which doesn't matter in a home robbery.
Second, while stronger doors and laminated windows are nice, they are ultimately not terribly effective (especially considering the price you would spend to do this to your whole house). Laminated glass can still be broken easily, and you only need a hole big enough to get your hand through to unlock the window. There were a couple houses that I went to where the thief took a high-lift jack and put it horizontally in the door frame, breaking the frame like match sticks, and spreading the pieces far enough apart to swing the door open.
The best thing you can do is get an alarm system, and don't be cheap. If you can get the alarm to go off before they get into the house, they usually run off. Throwing a couple of door sensors and a motion or two won't do that. Look into shock sensors for doors/windows (them kicking one of your non-entry doors would have set the alarm off before they ever go into the house). Still have a motion or two anyways.
As for having it monitored, honestly, its not that effective in catching criminals. Police take time to respond, especially to alarm calls, simply because they spend so much time going to false alarms. If you do get it monitored, get a cellular uplink unit, and have it as your system's primary communication. Any thief worth anything knows to go and cut the phone lines before he tries to break in, and if you don't have a cell unit, you are paying for monitoring on a system that probably won't be dialing out. The best reason in my mind for having a monitored system, is because it can save you on insurance, and you can get smoke detectors monitored.
Get alarm system stickers regardless, many thieves will turn away just to avoid dealing with a system. And put stuff you care about in a LARGE gun safe, preferably bolted to the floor from the inside.
Edited by speedemon (04/23/10 10:23 PM)
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#200862 - 04/23/10 10:27 PM
Re: Alarm worked
[Re: JohnN]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
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My local fire department maintains a database of important information by address.
They welcome information that is pertinent to their role in rescue and firefighting. The presence of animals and individuals who may need help getting out is included. Also the presence of hazardous materials, large amounts of oxygen, flammable solvents, ammunition, and other special information. Issues like a person using a power-dependent respirator are noted so they don't pull the power meter before they make sure the person is taken care of.
This sort of information is supposed to pop up when the address is typed in by the dispatcher and show up on the linked computer in the fire truck.
This sort of information is usually voluntarily reported to the fire department or emergency services by the residents. If you have such information I would contact the FD or emergency services administration for your area.
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#200863 - 04/23/10 10:38 PM
Re: Alarm worked
[Re: Art_in_FL]
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Old Hand
Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 745
Loc: NC
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Speedemon, the alarm system was older, came with the house. Will be upgraded. Was monitored, but after an event where the cats set off the alarm, and if a call was made, no one answered so the police should have been sent - and weren't, we stopped that. Makes sense to me tho, either the alarm will scare them or won't.
And no fake save our pets sticker, the one there is real. But the new fake dog will take up residence this week, via bowls and a chew toy.
A good thing to come from this is some of the neighbors are gonna get together and create our own lil crime watch. As there are only 9 houses on this street, and it's a cul-de-sac, it will be little. Still, most of us have military experience in the Airborne, so t'will will be exciting.
More and more I am thinking it was the workmen from across the street. Not sneaker prints on the door, but work boots.
And come Monday, my truck goes in the garage while DW is at work. Let's see a repeat.
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#200864 - 04/23/10 10:49 PM
Re: Alarm worked
[Re: speedemon]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
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As for having it monitored, honestly, its not that effective in catching criminals. Police take time to respond, especially to alarm calls, simply because they spend so much time going to false alarms. I came to a similar conclusion myself and eventually cancelled my monitoring service. The police probably came quickly in this case because he actually called himself and said, "Hey, my door is busted down!" On the other hand, if the dispatcher gets a call from XYZ Home Security to report an alarm, that's a lower priority call. The thing that I didn't understand for a long time was why my alarm company wanted my neighbor's number. Apparently, "false signals" (i.e. the monitoring service has indication of an alarm but your alarm is not even triggered) is a big problem, too. So, at least if your service can confirm with you or your neighbor that your alarm is indeed going off, that might bump up the priority of your call with the local police dispatcher. At least that's what I've read online somewhere.
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#200867 - 04/23/10 11:03 PM
Re: Alarm worked
[Re: Arney]
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Addict
Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 601
Loc: Southern Cal
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I'd be a little more circumspect with the hoping/wondering/wishing that there's a repeat performance when the truck is in the shop.
Could be construed as lying in wait and Google is not your friend when it comes to civil suits and comments made on the web.
Just a thought. Glad you're ok.
_________________________
JohnE
"and all the lousy little poets
comin round
tryin' to sound like Charlie Manson"
The Future/Leonard Cohen
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#200889 - 04/24/10 10:48 AM
Re: Alarm worked
[Re: Art_in_FL]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 391
Loc: CT
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Cops have training, well most don't really have that much, but they do have insurance and a very nice health plan if injured or killed on the job.
Their ability to have backup on hand, flood a neighborhood with patrol cars, and get help if it goes south covers a lot of sins. It is pretty amazing how many police, sheriffs, highway patrol, military police, you name it, can show up on a 'shots fired', 'officer need assistance', 'officer down' call.
In one case officers from no less than five agencies showed up. Inside of ten minutes they had a small army. Kind of a letdown when the guy walked out and laid down on the ground and all those pretty guns got put away unfired.
Wearing body armor also helps.
My biggest worry clearing the house would be a lack of backup, criminals can get very creative under pressure and hide in places you might not have considered, and, because you never know when cops will show up, what happens if cops come in while you're slicing the pie. Cop sees an armed man sighting down a gun taking aim at a friend and ...
A cop who doesn't make his intentions clear, or a command you didn't hear, a frightened and jumpy rookie who gets the 'order to drop gun' and 'shoot at center of mass of non-compliant suspect holding gun' backwards.
A neighbor, or concerned workman, reports 'a burglar with a gun just went in' lines up poorly with you walking out with a gun and things can go sideways fast.
Easiest way to make a doorway more secure, from B&E and hurricane, is to rearrange the door so it opens out. Hinges will need non-removable pins and/or hinge plates that mate. Replacing the door with a commercial duty metal one is good but simply skinning both sides with plywood and/or sheet metal can make all but bombproof.
Taking the door frame out, planing the framing a quarter inch and installing 3-1/4" by 1/4" aluminum plates top to bottom with 3" screws 6" OC spreads impact loads and gives mounting screws a solid grip. The Door frame is reinstalled with 3" screws by pre-drilling into the aluminum. Latches and deadbolts have holes drilled through the aluminum. Between the stops and aluminum you have a door that can't be kicked or pried open. Even a battering ram takes time to get through because they have to break the structural framing to defeat it.
Windows get high impact film and/or Plexiglas screwed to the casing. Bars are cheap and effective. Cactus and thorn bush plantings under windows can do a lot to discourage intruders.
With all this just make sure that you have a way out, and some way for emergency services to get in, in case of fire or other emergency.
The best thing you can do is to be an observant and articulate witness. If you know the cops are on the way, wait outside and observe--don't go inside and pollute the crime scene...that could very well be construed as hunting.
_________________________
Improvise,
Utilize,
Realize.
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#200893 - 04/24/10 01:08 PM
Re: Alarm worked
[Re: UncleGoo]
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Old Hand
Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
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Glad you came out of it O.K.
I wouldn't expect those particular burglars back anytime soon. They were smart enough to run when they tripped the alarm. That makes them smart enough to realize that
a) Both you and your neighbors are now in a state of raised awareness,
b) They'll probably just trip the alarm next time, too.
It doesn't exactly require above average intelligence to reach these conclusions. Most likely they're seeking easier targets elsewhere.
That being said, upgrading house security is always a good idea. There are other burglars out there. Or they may come back in 6 months, testing a different point of entry and hoping you didn't upgrade your system.
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#200923 - 04/24/10 09:32 PM
Re: Alarm worked
[Re: Art_in_FL]
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Geezer in Chief
Geezer
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
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Cops have training, well most don't really have that much, but they do have insurance and a very nice health plan if injured or killed on the job.
In one case officers from no less than five agencies showed up. Inside of ten minutes they had a small army. Kind of a letdown when the guy walked out and laid down on the ground and all those pretty guns got put away unfired.
Wearing body armor also helps.
At one point in my career I received Federal law enforcement training just north of you in Georgia. Going in, I thought it would be fairly soft. learning to say "Boy, yo in a heap o' trouble" and Advanced Doughnut Tactics. I learned far more about the US Constitution, pivotal Supreme Court decisions, and pertinent case law than I ever did in any of my academic courses. The exams were frequent and rigorous - solid college level stuff. We had plenty of practical training, as well - hand to hand combat (beginning level), crime scene investigation, pursuit driving, and lots of range time (pistol and shotgun). My understanding was that if you later survived a shootout, it was the practice to send your firearms instructor a nice bottle of wine. I never had to do that which is a good thing, because I am a lousy judge of good wine. The case you cite sounds like it came right out of my training. Go into the situation with overwhelming force, so that Mr. Scum Bag won't even think of resistance, will walk out, lay down, and all those pretty guns remain unfired. That way everyone goes home at night to their spouse and kids and Mr. Scum Bag has nice quarters at the gray bar hotel. This strategy also saves on body bags, ammunition, cleaning supplies, and paperwork. The three month's of training I received was not cheap, but it enabled me to do a better job in my assignments - In my opinion the taxpayer benefited. My understanding is that the training is now more rigorous than in my day (1978) with a lot more PT, among other things. Toward the end of my career, I was almost annually donating unused annual leave time to widows of deceased rangers who had died in the line of duty. I remember vividly giving in a situation at Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument where the AK-47 slug from a pot smuggler's firearm had found the side seam on the ranger's body armor, killing him. I don't think the compensation package can ever completely replace the lost person. For those persons who clear dwellings solo, best wishes and good luck. You have seen too many Hollywood movies. "High Noon" is a great flick, but it is definitely not a training film. It is far better for all concerned to wait and gain and maintain control of the scene. This is just one experience, at one institution, but from my discussions, it is fairly representative of LE training. It is rigorous preparation for demanding work.
Edited by hikermor (04/25/10 08:21 PM)
_________________________
Geezer in Chief
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#200957 - 04/25/10 03:26 PM
Re: Alarm worked
[Re: JohnN]
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Addict
Registered: 12/25/03
Posts: 410
Loc: Jupiter, FL
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It is off-topic, but I'm curious. Is it possible to put information on-file with the fire department about things like this? I keep such information in my residential Knox Box. For those unfamiliar with the Knox Box, its a solid steel key box that only the local fire department has a key to (you don't even have the key) where you store the key to your house and important information. That way, if the fire department is called to your house, they can get in quickly without having to damage your door.
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#200988 - 04/26/10 04:33 AM
Re: Alarm worked
[Re: celler]
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Old Hand
Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 778
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
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A Friend of mine installed a CCTV system with Cameras strategically placed & an Internet site to record the scene& any movements,24hrs. a day.It paid off about a month later,when he Identified a neighbor attempting to break-in his back door!Along with the local Police,Neighborhood Watch,& local Newspaper,this guy was caught,his very protective family,Moved away & 2/3 of the neighborhood has, Now installed similar systems.He said the hardest thing to do was calling the police,as He so Badly wanted to Chop this guys hands off!His set-up cost was about $1400.00 total,2yrs. ago.Another tip is, If you have Vinyl or Aluminum windows/frames you can silicone magnets along the bottom inside.Many thieves are known to run magnets around windows,to check for Alarm systems,this could be a decent deterrent,& cheap too!Make sure you install a Lock on your Breaker panel,& Fortify the access screen/panel if your place is not complete slab foundation,many homes have been invaded from underneath,as sound does not carry to well there.Game cameras inside the house,work well,when hidden & you have a clue at the very least,of which is ALOT to go on.I bid you Good Luck with everything,& Am glad you are Free to write about all this.
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