I ran across this today and thought I would run it by the forum for a critique. I keep a bobucket at home in the garage that contains somewhat similar items but this was such a good write-up on the subject.

Well, what do you think?

After a quick read my first thoughts focus on the gun. I'd personally worry about storing a weapon unsecure in a bucket. I know that the odds favor no one ever opening the bucket, but I have kids and I would never leave a weapon in a position where they or their friends could possibly run across it. Thats just my opinion. I know others will have a more liberal POV, and that's fine too.

I'll read the article in more depth later. Right now I gotta run to a meeting! <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Yeah!

Sorry but the following is a bit rambling - just thinking out-loud on the subject.

I wasn't too keen on the idea of sticking an expensive firearm in a bucket in the ground and leaving it there for a few years anyway. I agree that the danger of someone finding and taking the firearm is not a good thing whether it's kids or bankrobbers eitherway it isn't something I want done with a firearm that I own.

OTOH with the difficulty of carrying anywhere it makes some sense to have the firearm stashed somewhere. In the car is a reasonable option that I am currently using but if my vehicle were stolen then .... I think that the vehicle being stolen from a public parking spot is more likely actually than haveing a bucket unearthed from 4 feet of dirt on some conservation land - highway off-ramp type location. The safety of obscurity and having the bucket burried work in your advantage.

Of course if you also include MRE's or PA tablets then you will need to maintain the bucket which will help lead people to the bucket and ruin the obscurity factor. Of course you could bury the gun and keep the items of limited shelf-life in your EDC. Less hassle having someone notice you have a can of spam and some PA tablets then haveing to explain why you are carrying a glock everywhere you go. Not that they should ask since you should be allowed to but ask they do anyway and usualy they are shocked and angered that you do.

Now I know what to do with all those Y2K buckets of dehydrated celery my nieghbors tossed out. And speaking of Y2K, lets consider the premise of "bugging out." Sorry, but the whole implosion of society and Walter Mitty, Burt Gummer, Mad Max and the alumni of Survivor fleeing Los Angeles for time share cabins in Big Sur; encuring fire fights, midnight emergency surgery by maglite and jerking road kill racoons is to much. The biggest social upheaval in the USA was the Great Depression. More people were out of work, on the road and improvising than our survivalist's wildest post apocalyptic fantasies. Their history, and what they think of modern worries is out there; in libraries, film documentaries, Stienbeck novels, train museums ( listen to a bonafied Hobo talk about the difference in road people then and today,) and most important , our own grandparents. As for cache's? I did it once during a desert excavation. Mostly water and a few goodies stashed along future survey routes. It was clearly marked and noted it could be used for emergencies , but please leave it there. One day two ladies from Iowa drove up to see the 'dinosaur diggers' and produced one of my stashes from the Oldsmobile's trunk. "Look what we found! Do you think it belongs to anybody?"

Thinking further on the subject of buckets, it occurs to me that some brands of cat litter are available in large, heavy-duty, square buckets with resealable lid (but with no rubber gasket. The lack of gasket could probably be remedied by using a contractor bag as a liner, and I'd probably do this anyway for a cache). These store side by side and stack with minimal wasted space in between. I have about a half-dozen I've employed for various household duties and another dozen stacked up empty in our storage area. Now I know what to do with the empty ones!

While I agree with you on the TEOTWAKI flavor of the link I shared, I thought that, since others were discussing the idea of a bucket for stashing some "bug-over" supplies at a relatives or other location, this might be found useful.

My biggest disagreement with the TEOTWAKI type survivalist is thier presumption that they will be better off hiding at a remote location desperately defending what little they have rather than in immedaitely joining ranks with whomever they find and attempting to rebuild as much civilization as can be as quickly and amicably as can be. Both are likely to happen as is often displayed in the microcosm of hurricane survivors. Some come out day after and set up their grills and start cooking anything that they have and throwing a block party for whomever is left standing, they pitch in and clean up each others downed trees, share gasolene, help stabilize homes and look after the elderly. Others will get out the shotgun and run off the looters that inevitably arrive to take what they have after hearing their generator and seeing the blaze of their electric lights in the otherwise darkened landscape. Both scenarios will play out and both are probably unavoidable. For myself I would rather serve the looter a nice barbecue dinner and recruit them in the effort of rebuilding the neighborhood if possible than confront them and have to protect myself from them with arms.

OTOH, I would be prepared to protect myself with fire power if that became necessary but it wouldn't be my first option. Rather make a friend and widen the zone of civilization than make an enemy and isolate myself into an armed garrison.

Maybe I'm a starry-eyed romantic.

At my house the cat litter goes back out in the same bucket it came in just smells a bit different. Do you compost the litter then?

The block party group is the true survivalist! Bring on the tiki bar <img src="images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Yep, goes in the same heap as other unwanted organics. <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Only a 1/2 dozen, you must not have enough cats. I seem to give those away by the dozens. I think I will build my next house with them <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

They do work well for storage, keeps cans from rusting and getting dirty, but they do get the small of litter on things so be careful what food you put in them.

I agree with the spirit of the neighborhood BBQ folks, but if they had taken a little time to prepare they wouldn't have to cook everything in their frig. At least I didn't, and neither did anyone else that took precautions.

I get a tad irked at the people that complain endlessly about how long they are without power, even if it is just a couple days. This despite the fact that the local companies brought in crews from all over the country in preparation, and at least 2 of those out of state linemen lost their lives during the repairs. No one seems to care that there are at least 2 families out there that suffered a great loss just so some idiots could watch tv sooner, all they seem to do is criticize the efforts.

I for one was very impressed with the efforts made by the power companies from the entire area. They had a daunting task (over 1 million w/o power) and they had it all back up in a week (with a couple of small exceptions).

Oops. Got a little off topic. I just get irritated when people don't take responsibility for themselves and instead blame everyone else when something goes wrong. Sorry.

Greg

The whole concept of hiding numerous caches in various areas so an individual can travel to some supposedly safe haven strikes me as somewhat ludicrous and perhaps even paranoid. If you find yourself in the highly unlikely situation where there is a total societal breakdown, trotting through the woods alone is not likely to be an optimal solution to your problems.

However, having said that, I've modified the cache idea and used it successfully a number of times in some very specific situations:

I am a snowmobile enthusiast. I happen to belong to a remote hunt camp in the Adirondacks. I regularly snowmobile to the camp, which is not road-accessible during winter months. I've left a small "cache" at camp: Some clothes, a little food, tools, fuel, parts, sleeping bag, etc. It makes an impromptu spur-of-the-moment overnight stay possible. Last year two wet, near-frozen guys came rolling into camp. (they'd lost a sled through the ice) My stash came in handy. If I have a major breakdown on the trails , I have an additional option: Head for camp...

I've done something similar with an island cottage the family owns. When I've closed it up in the Fall, I've left a small stash of essentials: Some wood for the stove, a flashlight, some matches, food etc. As a late-season duck hunter, I know how violent and dangerous a large river can be in late November. And I've told a few duck hunting acquantances to kick the door in if the situation warrants it.

And long ago I recognized that it's good to have at least a few eggs in a different basket. I've copied important documents - wills, powers-of-attorney, insurance documents, birth certificates, etc and left copies with relatives who live some 200 miles away. If I have a house fire, flood, etc, I can access copies of needed documents. This back-up document packet is has also been supplemented with a few important must haves: Critical prescriptions, a spare pair of eyeglasses, etc. There has been a few occasions when a simple overnight stay was extended to a four night stay due to weather or health reasons. This stash has been highly helpful.

It's always good to plan ahead, and to try to increase your comfort and better your situation with some forethought. However, the sterotypical survivalist fear of some Max Mad type societal upheaval strikes me as paranoid.

So when our paranoid friends make their misguided run for the hills, running from cache to cache, traveling at night, finally arriving at their mountain retreat, what then? After they've eaten all their dehydrated celery and tree bark, what happens next?

When the $hit hits the fan, I call neighbors and offer help. I don't point guns at 'em... There is safety in numbers, planning, and organization....

The objective in almost any survival situation I can think of is to get TOO civilization. I've yet to encounter a situation that can be improved by running FROM civilization...

Thank God for Chris, Minime and Frozenny

My first PM on Equipped was to Doug saying that most UK residents thought "American Survival Types" went to the mall with an M16 with a thousand rounds 'just in case'. I don't actually believe this, but TV does reinforce this perception.

In the UK we're OK, because if you have a gun you're in deep doo doo - and the idea of stashing a handgun where a child might fimd it is abhorrent.

However, I'm all for preparing roadside stashes. I live in Central England and I have a cottage in the North Wales mountains, 100 miles away, there are 3 stashes en route.

On the 'community' versus 'go it alone' scenario all I would offer is this:

A neighbours kid came to the door the other day and said to our daughter:

"my dad says that Scott and Laraine love throwing parties but it must cost them a lot of money. Mind you, they get the whole neighbourhood together".

I'll go with that...

Between road construction and urban sprawl you may find your cache under the asphalt of a Walmart parking lot. Although a true survivalist probably has a pound of C4 as EDC. <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Brian

Before casting blanket derision on the TEOTWAWKI, head for the hills types it's important to understand the basis of their thinking. During the Cold War, when large population centers were likely targets, you basically had 3 choices: a bomb shelter, a retreat, or do nothing and let the government take care of me. Some folks took option A or B but the vast majority, as today, fell into the last group. If you were a retreatist then stashing supplies along your route made perfect sense.

The retreat philosophy was the basis for the Carter administrations infamous Crisis Relocation Plan. Instead of cabins in Idaho you simply retreated to a "host community" where, presumably, the population will break out the bbq and gleefully welcome you in.

Folks still routinely evacuate in the face of a major coastal storm. Fires still force the clearing of towns in the west. And people still obviously believe that any distruption of the norm might lead to riots or social disorder. If not, then why the collective sigh of relief when riots didn't break out during the recent blackout? Any of the above scenarios could benefit from having a cache or two along your preplanned evac route.

Quite a few folks on this forum talk about having their BOB stocked and ready to go. Where? Whether across town to a friends or a bunker in the Rockies, bugging out is bugging out. What's the difference between a large BOB that will get you all of the way to your evac point and a smaller BOB with a cache or two along the way that achieves the same result? I grant you that the threats have changed since the sixties but that doesn't mean that the need for an evac or retreat plan has been eliminated.

I don't want to come across like I've got a problem with sticking around and being part of the solution. I don't. If the situation warrants it, fine. But if I decide it's better to pull chocks and launch, well I've got that covered too.

When I lived in the county I was a volunteer firefighter and EMT. I'm currently studying for my first ham license. I maintain a year's supply in the basement. If I feel that I can afford to share or help out, ok. But this ant and grasshopper mentality that I've got some obligation to the masses simply because I had the foresight that they lacked, that gives me a twist.

Just my $.02

Ed

BTW, couldn't that guy have at least folded his spare skivvies for the picture <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Well and thoughtfully said! Thank you for bringing the TEOTWAKI sterotype into perspective. I think that there are always scenarios that would require relocation / retreat / fleeing to the hills / going over the river and through the woods to grandma's house etc. In all of these scenarios you might be moving along the highways adn 60 mph with clear road - or you might be moving on foot because the roads are a total congestion of the masses all going in one direction on a highway system that is designed to carry only a fraction of those individuals in any one directon. If you are moving in a mass evacuation scenario the possibility of social instability is higher due to the stress of the incident / impending storm / etc combined with the frustration of road-rage X 10. In any such scenario it might be wise to move somewhat off the beaten path both to stay out of the social instability and to move faster without the crowd. Having gotten to this point it is easy to see that some well placed caches would help. If you live on a coast or in a similar geography where you know your escape route is always going to be in a specific direction then the number and placement of the caches is fairly predictable. If you are the well supplied SUV stuck on the interstate with the masses when the third day of traffic jam occurs and people realize that they are hungry then you become a target. OTOH, if you are on a bicycle strolling up or riding up the shoulder and you have nothing other than your clothes they needn't know that you have a fully supplied cache with shelter and food for the night just up the road and just out of sight.