Surfing a few newsgroups and came accross this link -whats the general opinion on "waterproof matches"?

http://www.angelfire.com/pro/outdoors0/

joblot

The only 'waterproof' matches that I have used are the NATO wind/waterproof matches. I have used these many times with good results. They give a hot flame that can't be put out by the elements and is relitivly easy to light. the only problem is that they sometimes snap, but when you pick up the knack this doesn't often happen.

Check here for Doug's findings:
http://www.equipped.org/devices28.htm#StrikeOne

I needed an intellectual diversion today, having voted @ 7A.M. Perhaps the smell of sulfer will cleanse my nose. So, on to the great Strike Anywhere test in the tradition of the condom test. First I read everything there is to know about the things @ www.diamondbrands.com. I then randomly opened one of my 5 boxes of strike anywheres. On to a count and sorting ; 250 as advertised, 18 had undersized white tips, 9 deformed,2 broken and 1 missing the entire head. That left 230 well formed matches. Burn time with a good match ,held head down @ 45 degrees in still air is 30 seconds from ignition to burning fingers. Of the 18 undersized white tips, 5 literally popped off on ignition, flamed out and left a redhead requiring use of the box striker. 13 readilly ignited with a little care and burned normally. All9 deformed matches igniited with care to strike the white portion. The broken matches could not be ignited. Striking surfaces used were my living room wall, leather boot soles and provided box striker. That box striker is also the only strip I can also reliably ignite lifeboat matches with on a hard surface. Shipping regulations are making it harder to find strike anywheres. Matches are also denigrated in survival literature as " finite and fragile." As a final test I asked my next door nieghbor, a recent immigrant from Nepal to start a barbeque fire. Displayed were a metal match and hacksaw blade, disposablelighter and box of remaining matches. She immedietely reached for the matches. In a real life scenario WE may be incapacitated.The 12 y/o child or asphalt pounder possibly won't understand a firesteel, but everyone knows about wooden matches.

...involves the term 'waterproof', as it is often applied to radically different products. For example, Coghlan's sells at least two different kinds of 'waterproof' matches. The more common variety are called 'Waterproof Safety Matches', and may be found at virtually any store that sells outdoorsy or camping type goodies. The 'Safety' matches are indeed waterproof, but they have tiny little heads and are easily extinguished by the slightest breeze. I'm sure they're fine for firing up the charcoal cooker next to the RV, but I'd be awfully nervous sticking them in a serious survival kit. The other kind are called 'Wind and Waterproof Matches.' They tend to be a little harder to find, but they're a lot closer to what you're thinking of regarding a NATO or 'Lifeboat' style match. All matches are not created equal.

<< The other kind are called 'Wind and Waterproof Matches.' >>

Yeah, these are OK and not too hard to find. Actually, they're pretty good IMHO. Not in a waterproof container, but the NATO matches striker is exposed too, so so even those can be improved (as a system). The Coghlins need the same striking motion as the NATO matches.

Hi Tom,I guess I'm just confused.

I have read about this jabbing motion and I have tried it myself. I've even succeeded ... occasionally. I've also broken more than my share of matches attempting (failing) to master it. Finally, I just gave up, because, quite frankly, I've never needed it. In an earlier post I mentioned how I've always had great luck with NATOs just striking them on the top of the bottle like I would any other match. They have always started great for me, and I don't break them anymore. <img src="images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Now you say that the Coughlan's "Wind and Water Proof" matches require the same jabbing motion. I've never used the infamous jab with them; I just strike them like I do all other matches. I've never had a problem. So, I guess I'm just asking for confirmation of the problem. Do you really find it difficult to strike these types of matches normally?

Anyone else care to share your experiences? I really am curious, as I seem to be unable to replicate the problem.

Stay safe,
J.T.

i have tryed/used 3 type's:
-the NATO one
-the coughlan waterproof matches ( the small tiped one )
-hurrican matches

the coughlans are good for normall use and wenn you don't have tinder, the NATO type are very hard to get out wenn it is going, but needs tinder and are harder to strike ( i have never been able to light one on the striker of the vial ), the hurrican matches are almost like the NATO once, but smaller ( has a slightly less burining time ) and is cheaper.

I put the coughlans and the NATO once in mine kits.

i've seen some interesting looking matches, made by bryant+may, they are called barbeque matches, and have a large head and a long stick made from pressed wood chips and wax. the idea beeing that to light a BBQ you just lob in a couple of these baby's. thought that they might be good for fires whent he weather was a bit bad, i mean, if you're having a BBq the weather is bound to be dreadful! can't find a link page i'm affraid!
steve

I bought some NATO matches and have been unable to get them to light using either the jabbing motion or the 'standard match' methodusing the striker at the top. (Actually, I got it to light once but the match had broken in the attempt).

What am I missing??? <img src="images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Check the type of match you've got. BCB is the Rolls Royce, some imitators are inferior.

I've struck about 300+ BCBs over the years and I always used a standard striking motion.

Be prepared to waste a good few of these (expensive) matches to perfect your technique before you need them.

Then get up onto Kinder Scout in January with a 30mph wind from the North, remove glove, sample the windchill for 10 minutes and try again - this will modify you action probably!!! LOL

I think that there are a other variables in the striking of these matches.

The effective match strike is one that generates sufficient friction and pressure. With matches that require a specific striker there is a need for the chemicals to interact - pressure. The Jabbing provides friction under pressure but the pressure often is dispersed by the fracturing of the match-stick thus sending the head (sometimes the flaming head) flying off to the side and leaving the puzzled, frustrated survivor in the cold holding the broken end of the match.

My approach is to risk burning my first finger. I find that if I hold the match stick between second finger and thumb and then press the head against the striker with my first finger and drag the match accross the striker while putting pressure on the head of the match directly I successfully strike the match everytime (until I wear out the striker). By putting my finger on the chemical tip of the match and applying pressure that way I don't risk breaking the match stick. I do, however, risk burning my finger in the initial blaze of the match. I found that the practice and instinct to get my finger out of the way quickly was easier than learning to "jab-strike" the match without snapping the matchstick.

Just my $.02

JT,

<< Do you really find it difficult to strike these types of matches normally? >>

No - but they break frequently and can be difficult to light IME when scrubbed conventionally. The "stab" method works first time, everytime for me and since learning it, I have not broken a single match.

I found the conventional method works reliably for me only if I support the head of the match, much like many folks strike a paper match. Based on my experiences with paper matches, that could lead to an occasional "exciting" moment if my finger temporarily adheres to the match, so I switched to the "stab" method and learned it.

On two super-unit occasions, Scouts broke enough of these using conventional method to make my wallet wince...

If your method works, stick to it, eh?

Regards,

Tom

Try a "firm push" instead of a jab, holding the match at a slight angle, just as you would if you were pulling it across the striker.

The idea is to align the energy or force of the motion along the length of the stick to take advantage of the natural structure of wood fibers. The traditional "pull" or drag method places the force midway along the stick with your finger acting as the fulcrum. Placing your finger tip near the head moves the fulcrum near the end where it's harder to break the wood fibers.

In Ray Mears' book 'Bushcraft', he mentioned these and says that some ultralights even use them to brew drinks on the trail.

Judging by the responses from my initial post, I'll probably forgo buying matches. If the intelligent and capable people frequenting this forum struggle with these matches, it doesn't leave much hope for " The 12 y/o child or asphalt pounder ".
Building redundancy into any system is good but if it doesn't work properly and consistantly when you need it, its simply excess baggage. IMHO :-)
Thats my 0.2cents!
joblot

I would not be so quick to write off matches for just the reason that Chris points too. A 12yr old or asphalt pounder knows what they are and can make them work. The lifeboat matches are a bit tricky, but decent strike-anywheres (not sure if you have those in Scotland), work well.

Carrying redundant firestarting methods is important in my view. A disposable butane lighter, Strike-Anywhere matches coated in finger nail polish or wax in a matchsafe, LifeBoats, and a Fire Steel all are excellent choices. Best bet is to find what works well for you and carry different modes.

I carry matches but they are my second or third choice for use. I carry them for exactly the reason Chris stated.....everyone knows what they are. A firesteel has its own tricks, and I cannot expect someone to know those tricks but I can reasonably expect a novice to know about a lighter or the Strike-Anywheres.


My keychain firekits (firesteels and cotton/vaseline tinder containers)


Matchsafes

Here is another image of a few EDC items for me. Matches are not coated with wax in this case but normally I do that. Fingernail polish is a bit easier, and also works. The matchsafe is important and also includes a needle with some strong thread wound around it for repairs.



This stuff plus the keychain with BSA firesteel are in my pockets, the larger Swedish Firesteel and clik-clak tin of vaseline/cotton and Maya wood are in my vest along with a Zippo that I have wrapped in 4 layers of Saran wrap to minimize evaporation. I refill the Zippo one a month. Even if all its fuel evaporates it is a sparker with cotton tinder. I frequently carry a pen shaped butane lighter along side my pens. This gives me plenty of options.

Matchsafe-either K&M or Silva with SA's
Knife-Small Sebenza
Notebook-Moleskine with needle in binding and thread in pocket, along with my reference list of information like emergency numbers, bus routes, Willies cheatsheat etc
Bandana-Bandana
Light-Inova X5
Pen-Pelikan

What kind of camera are you using? That picture of the match safes was great! <img src="images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I have no problem striking the Coughlan's matches normally.

The Storm / Nato matches require more patience.... <img src="images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

pete, yeah that's where i first saw them, then about a month later they turned up in the corner shop just over the road from work.
schwert, where did you get the match safe things from? who are they made by? not sure that i've seen them over here.
steve

Randy,
One day I hope to be a classy as you! Really!

Thanks for the comments, now a few answers.

Camera--Canon S330. Thanks for the image praise Mamabear. This camera is a very small one that I specifically bought so I could always have it in my shirtpocket. Not the best in all areas, but handy and gives decent results.

Matchsafes vary but most are either K&M or the same design marketed by Silva USA (Johnson Camping).


Here are the ID's from left to right
Everdry, Chromed Brass, vintage 1950's, my Grandfathers
Agfa 120 roll film container, late 1960's
Plastic GI case, 1970's
K&M case, green domed compass, small diameter brass, 1st one, 1980's
K&M case, Silva flat blue compass, larger diameter brass, late 1980's
K&M case, Silva flat white compass, larger diameter brass, later 1980's
K&M case, Silva blue compass, bare aluminum, first series, late 1980's
Silva case, Silva compass, brass, vintage 2001
Silva case, Silva compass, anodized aluminum, vintage 2003

K&M Matchsafes can be had from Keith Lunders at K & M industries in Idaho at (208) 826-3447.

New screwcap Silva versions from Johnson Camping at:



http://www.eurekacampingctr.com/product_information.html

The double O-ring models from Silva, either brass or anodized aluminum are not made anymore, but Keith still makes these. I have the screwtop Silva and it is also nice, but I prefer the double O-ring models.

Matchsafes are another one of my vices....Quality pieces like the original K&M design are perfect devices IMO. Keith invented the design and perfected the cord twist security closure on the plug. Silva marketing, in corporate unwisdom, emphasized the compass and completely ignored the cord twist mechanism. This confused cutomers so they decide to reintroduce the matchsafe with a screwcap.

If you get any of these, recent Strike Anywhere matches made by Diamond are about 3mm longer than they used to be. Matches MUST be trimmed to safely be stowed in these cases. This is true for K&M, Everdry, Silva new and old, GI, and old Marbles matchsafes.