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#197570 - 03/09/10 12:16 AM Re: Banking costs and staying sane. [Re: Art_in_FL]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2997
And thats why my money goes in both. Big bank gets a direct deposit and I do online bill pay out of that account. If we need anything else we use small bank.
My big bank credit card was declined from lack of use the last time I tried to use it. Had to call and reactivate, I hadn't used it in a few months.

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#197598 - 03/09/10 04:46 PM Re: Banking costs and staying sane. [Re: Eugene]
thseng Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 900
Loc: NW NJ
There is also checkingfinder.com

It lets you search high(er) interest checking accounts offered by some credit unions. I'd use one of them, but to get the higher interest rate you need to use their debit card 10 or 12 times a month. This doesn't fit my current system, where I keep only a small balance in the account I use for debit card purchases.
_________________________
- Tom S.

"Never trust and engineer who doesn't carry a pocketknife."

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#197600 - 03/09/10 05:23 PM Re: Banking costs and staying sane. [Re: thseng]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2997
One of the other things I did was close all accounts I had at any but the two banks I keep. So at each of those I have checking, savings, mortgage, credit, cd, etc but only at those two banks. This way if my wallet is lost or stolen i onlt have two places to go report the loss rather than keping track of 10 different store cards.

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#197616 - 03/10/10 12:06 AM Re: Banking costs and staying sane. [Re: Art_in_FL]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Y'know, one of the things that galls me about a number of different industries, including retail banking, is how more and more of their revenue stream is derived from various fees and penalties imposed on their existing customers rather than through their primary business function. For example, instead of banks using depositors' money to lend to creditworthy people and businesses to do productive things with, they shamelessly pillage their own depositors for more and more fees. One overdraft can trigger a whole series of overdrafts and more penalties that can quickly snowball into ridiculous amounts.

It's really crazy and most of folks just "take it" or worse, just are totally oblivious to how much money (which could be used more productively, like for emergency preps!) is lost this way. So, where we bank really does have an effect on our ability to prepare for life's little (and big) emergencies.

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#197620 - 03/10/10 02:30 AM Re: Banking costs and staying sane. [Re: Arney]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Speaking of banks. . . Money As Debt
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#197628 - 03/10/10 03:45 AM Re: Banking costs and staying sane. [Re: Arney]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
Originally Posted By: Arney
Y'know, one of the things that galls me about a number of different industries, including retail banking, is how more and more of their revenue stream is derived from various fees and penalties imposed on their existing customers. For example, instead of banks using depositors' money to lend to creditworthy people and businesses to do productive things with, they shamelessly pillage their own depositors for more and more fees. One overdraft can trigger a whole series of overdrafts and more penalties that can quickly snowball into ridiculous amounts.

It's really crazy and most of folks just "take it" or worse, just are totally oblivious to how much money (which could be used more productively, like for emergency preps!) is lost this way. So, where we bank really does have an effect on our ability to prepare for life's little (and big) emergencies.


The finance industry, particularly the credit card side, have done a lot of research in psychology to determine exactly how to take advantage of the known faults in human cognition.

They know, for example that if they manipulate the due date of a payment so it falls on a Sunday they will have a jump in late payments. Figures I've seen say roughly a 5% to 10% jump. With every late payment they get to charge a late fee.

But it only starts there because people who are most likely miss a payment are also the most likely to be near their credit limit. For some of those people the late fee will cross their credit limit which ... wait for it ... triggers another fee and increases the odds they will charge something after they have crossed that line.

Which, wouldn't you know it, can trigger a separate, high interest line of credit. In essence instead of just rejecting the charge the company signs the person up for a high interest personal loan. And they consider this to be a 'service'. In theory you can tell the credit card and debit cards companies to simply reject the charge. But in practice it is almost impossible to have them not include 'automatic overdraft protection' in any plan. They make too much money on it to not automatically sign you up for the 'service'.

The pattern of behavior is well known to loan sharks everywhere. Find someone who is about to find themselves in a hole and hand them a shovel. At least leeches are honest about sucking your blood. They take the blood and leave. These people want to suck your blood, collect a fee for the privilege of having your blood sucked, and make believe they are doing you a favor.

About credit and credit cards. Reading this site, watching the show, could save you money:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/credit/

I laughed hard when a banking executive claimed that people who walk away from 'under water' mortgages are breaking a social contract. In effect he is saying the bankers can screw you and it is 'just business', and good for America. But a consumer walking away from a financial trap, taking the credit hit but divesting themselves of a long term losing proposition, is somehow a moral failure. Funny how the rules only cut one way.

Unrelated but interesting:
http://scienceblogs.com/mikethemadbiologist/2010/03/sunday_sermon_in_defense_of_de.php

Misconceptions about deficits:
http://scienceblogs.com/mikethemadbiologist/2010/03/more_on_misunderstanding_defic.php

To survive modern times people have to know something about money, debt and how so many of the 'known facts' are simply wrong or are being used out of context.

It also helps if people are a little bit angry. It is easy to get overwhelmed by the intricacies of finances and stop reading the credit card bill closely. Getting mad helps get people motivated to look closely at what the financial sector is pushing onto us both individually and as a group.



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#197640 - 03/10/10 10:12 AM Re: Banking costs and staying sane. [Re: Arney]
bsmith Offline
day hiker
Addict

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 590
Loc: ventura county, ca
Originally Posted By: Arney
Y'know, one of the things that galls me about a number of different industries, including retail banking, is how more and more of their revenue stream is derived from various fees and penalties imposed on their existing customers rather than through their primary business function.

i read somewhere that it's easier to steal $1.00 from a million people than it is to steal $1,000,000 from one person. banks learned that some time ago.
_________________________
“Everyone should have a horse. It is a great way to store meat without refrigeration. Just don’t ever get on one.”
- ponder's dad

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#197663 - 03/10/10 03:38 PM Re: Banking costs and staying sane. [Re: bsmith]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
I just read that the banking industry brought in $40 billion just in overdraft fees alone last year. That is a lot of money.

Edit: Oh, I was just reading about BofA's new announcement that it will stop automatically charging overdraft fees. How gracious! Unfortunately, the truth is that they're just following a new rule that kicks in this summer. Bank customers must opt-in for overdraft protection, otherwise those overdrafts will simply be denied.

Considering the $40 billion figure I mentioned at the top, you just know that banks will make up that lost revenue some other way. And also slash customer service to reduce costs and maintain their profit margin. Do you like talking to a real human being? Sorry, we're closing all our branches in your city and you'll have to do all your banking at this dinky ATM machine in the back corner of the drug store from now on. Have a nice day and thanks for banking with us!


Edited by Arney (03/10/10 04:32 PM)

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#197667 - 03/10/10 04:28 PM Re: Banking costs and staying sane. [Re: Arney]
thseng Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 900
Loc: NW NJ
Last year I asked my bank to configure the account I use for debit card purchases such that instead of allowing an overdraft, it simply declines the transaction.

There are caveats. For instance, if I have $20 in the account and the gas station does a temporary authorization for $1, it will go through. Then if I buy $30 of gas and they post the transaction the next day or so, it could overdraft. Likewise, if I only want $20 of gas and the gas station tries to authorize $50, it won't go through.

Seems that the new legislation will require you to opt-in for overdraft "privileges" instead of having it by default.
_________________________
- Tom S.

"Never trust and engineer who doesn't carry a pocketknife."

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#197679 - 03/10/10 06:00 PM Re: Banking costs and staying sane. [Re: thseng]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
I guess the obvious solution, then, is to not overdraft, not do credit any more than is absolutely necessary, and live within our means.

Like Grandad said, when the mason jar was empty, you were broke, that was all there was.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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