We are doing the same thing for the same reasons. Don't have the funds to do it all at once, but with an additional amount automatically added each month, we will take 14 years and almost $50,000 of interest off of the original fixed rate 30 year mortgage. It will be payed off in 8 years instead of 22. We are playing it by ear for another 6 months. If it looks dicey at that time, we will liquidate our 401k (at the current tax rates) and pay off the mortgage.

"I think the best insight into the future is to study the past."

You are totally correct. Everything that is happening now has happened before. Our government is attempting to 'fix' the problem using the same backwards, ineffective methods that Hoover and Roosevelt used back in the 30s and early 40s. They didn't work then, and they won't work now. Instead of fixing the economy, they are attempting to bulldoze their way by trying to change the results (unemployment, bank failures, housing foreclosures).

Unfortunately, the people of the Great Depression lived closer to the land than now, with about a third of the population living on farms. In 1935 there were nearly 7 million farms, spread all over, but now there are fewer than 2.5 million in centralized areas and trucked about 1,000 miles -- heavily dependent on fossil fuels and infrastructure.

If we end up in a 'Greater' Depression, the results are going to be mind-boggling, and I'll bet the death rate from starvation is going to be tremendous.

As I see it:
1) Do your best to keep your home, or be prepared to create one, even if you have to move your family/friends into an abandoned one.
2) Learn to grow at least some of your own food. There is a fairly steep learning curve on this, it's best you get started now. Encourage your neighbors to do the same, with different crops, then trade. Plan food harvesting and year-round storing.
3) Check out rainwater harvesting and storing.
4) Keep everything crossed: fingers, toes, eyes.

Sue

Not only are business' reluctant to take on new debt, banks have tightened their loan requirements, making it even more difficult to borrow. Even in good times banks require mounds of paperwork that only lawyers can sort through, seriously. It may seem like a lot, but its not uncommon for a small business to spend upwards of $200,000 for remodeling, repair, and maintenance, especially in industries like food service, where equipment wears out fast. They're kind of the canaries in the coal mine since they operate on more of a cash basis than most other business and employ more people than any other industry. Right now, sales seem to be down for everyone. My question is, who in their right mind is gonna hire more employees when when sales figures are declining? Sorry, but until a recovery can be proven by an increase in sales, no business in their right mind would hire more employees than they need, much less take on new loans.

Unfortunately, the people of the Great Depression lived closer to the land than now, with about a third of the population living on farms. In 1935 there were nearly 7 million farms, spread all over, but now there are fewer than 2.5 million in centralized areas and trucked about 1,000 miles -- heavily dependent on fossil fuels and infrastructure.

If we end up in a 'Greater' Depression, the results are going to be mind-boggling, and I'll bet the death rate from starvation is going to be tremendous.

[/quote]

This may be the time to stock up on seeds. There were crops that were common then and kept a long time without refrigeration. I'm thinking of turnips, rutabegas, and parsnips. The home I grew up in had a root cellar, and there were always potatoes and fat carrots in there.

Very true, Byrd!

But when you're buying seeds, you might want to skip most of the ones in the racks at the local stores (there are some exceptions), as their germination rate isn't usually the best, and some of the stuff doesn't grow well under your local conditions.

Get some of the better seed catalogs and study their plant descriptions. Some varieties are best for northern or southern gardens, some store very well and others are better to eat right away, some are hybrids (you have to buy more of the same kind of seed to get the same results because they don't 'breed true') and some are open-pollinated (OP) that you can save the seeds from, once you learn how. Some plants are better for growing in fall/winter in milder areas or in an unheated greenhouse, and others will simply croak.

Some good seed and plant catalogs that I have seen:

Territorial Seed www.territorialseed.com
Bountiful Gardens http://www.bountifulgardens.org
Johnny's Selected Seeds www.johnnyseeds.com
R.H. Shumway www.rhshumway.com
Nichol's Garden Nursery www.nicholsgardennursery.com
Raintree Nursery (food plants) www.raintreenursery.com
Burnt Ridge Nursery (food plants) http://www.burntridgenursery.com/
Seeds of Change www.seedsofchange.com
Pinetree Garden Seeds www.superseeds.com
Bear Creek Heirloom Seed www.rareseeds.com
Vesey's Seeds www.veseys.com
John Scheeper's Kitchen Garden Seed www.kitchengardenseeds.com
Vermont Bean Seed Co. http://www.vermontbean.com/
Fedco Seeds http://www.fedcoseeds.com/
Filaree Farm (lots of garlic) http://www.filareefarm.com
Heirloom Tomatoes http://www.heirloomtomatoes.net/
Landreth Seed Co. http://www.landrethseeds.com/
Native Seeds/SEARCH http://www.nativeseeds.org
Ronninger's Potato Farm http://www.ronnigers.com/
Sand Hill Preservation Center http://www.sandhillpreservation.com/
South Carolina Foundation Seed Assoc. http://virtual.clemson.edu/groups/seed/heirloom.htm
Southern Exposure Seed Exchange http://www.southernexposure.com/index.html
Victory Seeds http://victoryseeds.com/

There is also the Garden Watchdog service, that rates sources of garden seeds and equipment: http://davesgarden.com/products/gwd/

Susan,

Wow, you have done your homework. I'm going to start looking through the catalogs and obtaining some legacy variety seeds that I can keep in the freezer.

Not something you can do after the SHTF. . .

'Buy farmland and gold,' advises Dr Doom
Do it now or don't.

its interesting to talk about teotwawki like that but I have never felt that it is a likely thing where I live. I live near a lot of farmland, horse country, etc. Famine and such is a possibility in many "unsustainable" locales but I still feel its unlikely. our country wastes amazing amounts of resources. gloom'n'doom predictions often assume that we are running on fumes which has never been the case.

if you are worried about it, great questions to ask yourself include:
Did people live here 100 years ago? if not, why not? Did they thrive? what challenges did they have with each season?

History is a wonderful teacher.

Speaking of history being a wonderful teacher...

I think that this article deftly summarizes our events. The very amusing thing is that it was written 8 years ago about Japan. Someone else on this forum mentioned that a 15 year recession like Japan's is far more likely. After doing some research, I tend to agree.

In the article, you could replace "Japan" with "USA" and it would be right on the money.

That being said, i think everyone should consider getting seeds and chickens, which I've done. I only kept the chickens for 9 months, but better to become familiar with them now... the seeds are in windowsill milk boxes starting to sprout even as I type!

"if you are worried about it, great questions to ask yourself include: Did people live here 100 years ago? if not, why not? Did they thrive? what challenges did they have with each season?"

You're just skimming over the top of the problem.

Seventy years ago, most Americans knew how to do things that were pertinent to survival that most don't have a clue how to do today.

A large percentage of people in this country today would be unable to do things such as grow their own food, preserve their food, milk a cow or goat, harvest seed for the next crop, prepare a brooder for chicks, cut firewood without a chainsaw, build a year-round shelter family without power tools, butcher a deer, render fat, make soap, bury a body, or bake a loaf of bread.

Just imagine suddenly being put into an America without fast food, without the internet, without cell phones, without daily food delivery to your local market, without fuel for your $50,000 pickup, without (OMG!) Starbucks, without WallyWorld's daily deliveries of entire trainloads of junk from China.

How would people deal with their kids who suddenly find themselves without their video games, television and FaceBook?

The Americans of today are not the same Americans of the 1930s.

Sue

A trip to the local Irish Pub (about 50 yards from my workplace) for a Guinness (this is allowed because they have been making it for a couple hundred years) in the town sounds about right or some sea fishing at Auchmithie or a round of golf at Carnoustie. I've been to McDonalds twice now in the last 2 years and wasn't too impressed. KFC (the horror the horror). Never been in a Starbucks. What's Facebook? Less cars on the road, what a tremendous idea, I can get back to enjoying my cycling as it was in the late 1980s/early 1990s (but all the potholes the traffic has caused need to be repaired though). No Internet. Teenage boys will just have to be content with finding used copies of Mayfair found in the local park. At least it will get them out of the house instead of slowly becoming clinically obese sitting in front of the computer games consoles eating pizza. TV should be restricted to 3 TV channels and should close down at night and only start again in the afternoon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQyxkC_Mg90



Celebrity stories on the news media should be legally banned. (these stories aren't news, just another waste of everyones time).

Apparently humanity just about make it through the later half of the 20th century (a lot of close calls though). In many ways the beginning of the 21st century is perhaps actually less optimistic even with all the toys and gadgets like GPS receivers, Laptops, Mobile & iPhones and Ipads etc. (must be the drip drip effect of those news media celebrity and lifestyle stories)