>>It seems to me that I've read about some toxicity issues when cooking in untinned copper. Don't know if that would apply to a boiler since there's probably nothing for the copper to react with. OTOH if you're trying to purify water in the field that has a high mineral content then it might be a concern.<<

Personally, I wouldn't be concerned. There is a concern about long-term exposure to reactive (acidic, mostly) foods cooked in copper... among other things, you can get minute amounts of arsenic. However, if you search, say, ebay for "copper kettle" you'll get hundreds of hits.. they've been in constant use for centuries, and are stil made (I think Revere Ware whistling kettles still have copper bottoms. You can't beat it for conveying heat). When you think about it, it's not much different than copper pipes coming from a water heater...

The minerals in the water actually tend to form scale in pipes and especially in a boiler, that actually isolate the water from the copper, so if the copper were a hazard, the minerals would be a good thing.

But then, I think toxicity of common metals is overhyped anyway. Entire generations survived somehow with dental fillings made of metals that might, in this day and age, provoke building evacuations. We've gone from being probably too casual about it, to hysterical overreaction. I've seen mothers snatch children away because there was a chance they would touch something made of lead... a couple of generations ago, it was what our pipes were made of.

As for the bail verses the handles, I'm not sure. It's really not hard to pick up the kettle by the bail without putting your hand over it- and it looks like those handles have real potential to be knuckle-burners. That copper with boiling water inside looks awfully close to fingers... but not having handled one, I can't really know.

I actually might be persuaded to try this one, though. The design of the cooking ring and base, used with or without the kettle in between, seems to me likely to be much more efficient than the Kelly Kettle's add-on auxiliary cooking arrangement. Whereas that doesn't work at the same time as boling water, this one does both at once, with the same fuel- and where that is reduced to a fire-in-a-pot with a grill, with no chimney effect at all for cooking, this one actually looks pretty efficient even without the kettle.

That is indeed interesting. In googling "kelly kettle", "storm kettle", "volcano kettle", and now "thermette", I've seen a lot of praise, and I'm looking forward to trying it out.

I received my Storm "Popular" model a few days ago, but this has been a "week-from-H" at work.. long hours, high pressure, worked yesterday and today, and I've had no time to fire the kettle up. The size is interesting- it's either the best or worst of both worlds, depending on how you view it. Maximum capacity is a bit less than I thought it would be from the descriptions, something just a hair over 32 ounces. Looks like it will do for two 16 ounce mugs, or one mug and a pouch of freeze-dried food, which is what I was going for... on the other hand, it's pretty bulky for backpacking. For summer packing, where there's far less inclination toward hot drinks, I think I'd be tempted to revert to the singe-pint Kelly. For the main use I bought it for it should do just fine.

I did check, and this one shows no sign of leaks, but the warnings and disclaimers about that and other things that came with it are EXACTLY, word-for-word, identical to those on the Kelly Kettle website. Hmm....

I'm also really tempted to time boiling before and after blackening the inside of the chimney with stove paint, or maybe Birchwood Casey aluminum black (hmm... that latter may have potential for unhealthy fumes...) . People really tend to underestimate the difference blackening can make in heat exchange- it's often dramatic. Tests on cylinders of air-cooled motorcycle engines before and after blackening have shown almost 100 degree F differences.

I agree with you about the exageration of so called 'toxic' metals. 3 years ago we moved from a house with lead pipes (not because of the pipes, I hasten to add <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />) I had been drinking water from those pipes for all my life with no ill effects <img src="images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

OK, after Yahooing my Sunday morning away reading about copper toxicity, etc here's what I've come up with.
You might develope vomiting, nausea, runs if you drink water that has been standing in a copper pipe for a while (overnight, etc). Flush the pipe for 15-30 seconds and the risk is virtually minimized.

Copper toxicity in cookware is indeed aggravated by acidic foods or if the pot has spots that have oxidized into a copper salt (that blue green crud). Symptoms are as above, short duration, and can may be mistakenly refered to as "stomach flu".

Since at least the fur trade era the majority of copper cookware has been tinned or lined with some other metal. Even top of the line chefware such as De Buyer or Maurviel (sp?) has a stainless lining. I guess it just wouldn't do to barf your expensive French dinner all over the maitre de on your way out the door <img src="images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

So, as long as you kettle hasn't oxidized, you're probably right, for a water boiler it's going to be a nonissue

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp132.pdf has a 295 pages of information on the subject, from "does inhaling copper fumes cause impotence?" (they don't know <img src="images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />) to "how much copper sulfate does it take to kill a hamster in 2 weeks?" (quite a bit <img src="images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />)

Ed

Pete,
How intelligent would you be if you hadn't been drinking water from lead pipes for all of those years? <img src="images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Think about it.....if you can <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Ed

Maybe anodize and dye the inside of the chimney? Or over-all anodize the outside at least... just regular anodizing would be OK and the black dye can't hurt...

?? Anodizing is beyond the scope of my basement experiments, and I don't think I'm going to spend hundreds to send it off somewhere... or maybe you were just thinking that the manufacturer should anodize it?

Actually, the order card/form that was shipped with it said something about a black finish, but it was marked off, as though it was available once, but no longer.

The only part that needs blackening is the inside of the chimney, of course. Birchwood Casey Aluminum Black would probably be fine, but it's hard to be certain about fumes and using it indoors. Stove paint works. Some high-heat enamels, like engine enamel or even some exhaust paints don't work, they actually insulate.

I'm sure once it's been used with a dozen fires or so, the inside is going to be naturally pretty black- anything else is just a stopgap.

Well... I was thinking of anodizing it yourself, of course. It's not that difficult - prol not worth the setup for just one part, tho.

Aluminum "takes" soot pretty well - I think it might take better if you swab/scrub the inside of the chimney with alcohol right before you fire it off the first time. Burnish it with a dry cloth after each use and it should get a good hard coat of carbon over time. However... since you're thinking about using it indoors, let me point out a probable side effect - when you use it with an "odorless" fuel indoors, you'll get a little aroma from fires past - not unpleasant if you keep the loose soot and resinous stuff wiped out. My old aluminum snow-melting kettle smells like Alaska whenever I use it on the gas stove indoors... it's pretty black on the outside.

Hope you have time to play around with the kettle this week.

You might want to look at stove black. It is a dye made for wood stoves and flue pipes. Easy to apply and on a wood stove lasts a long time. Works good on the flue pipe as well and the pipe can get very hot.

Check stores that carry wood stoves or wood stove supplies. A small amount will go a very long way.

Never tried it on the inside of a stove though.

Neal

Actually, I've got some - thanks. Works fine on the outside of stoves. I never tried it on aluminum - I suspect it may not work the same way it does on iron/steel, but it sounds like P_L will be able to report on his use of it soon.