Redundancy has gone too far if your kit is so bulky or heavy that it is bothersome to carry and gets left behind. Or if it slows you down to the point that it creates issues.

Your not deeply enough into redundancy if you are at significant risk of death or serious injury because you don't have something to work with.

In principle it is ridiculously simple. In application it is a complicated, multilayer, puzzle that pits the specifics and probabilities inherent in your particular situation against your preferences and tolerance for risk, burden and frustration.

my .02 cents

Gear < KNOWLEDGE

If 2 is good, three is overkill.

I agree. There is reundancy then there is redundalunacy as we call it.

My gear (depending on season and trip location/distance) is pretty constant and only the most critical items are redundant. Short of losing the backpack, the odds favor you in that you will have whatever is in your pack(s) at your disposal.

Does this work for everyone? Probably not, however after years and 1000's of miles in some the most rugged and remote terrain in NA, this has worked well for me and friends even in some precarious situations. I have found that knowledge, skills and mental resolve are much more useful then carrying questionably redundant items.

1 signal mirror is plenty.
1 heatshield is enough.
3 ways to make a fire ... is more than enough.

You've got to cut weight. I used to try to double up on items (for backups), but more and more I don't do that now - EXCEPT for some critical equipment.

Instead I do the following:

1. Make sure critical items are tough - industrial strength. So they won't break during normal use.
2. Rely on organization. You shouldn't be losing essential gear. Cut weight, and step up your organization.
3. Double-check that you've got all your gear, every time you leave your last rest point.
4. Rely on personal skills to improvise gear, if my stuff gets lost or broken.
5. Don't freak out if you're missing something. Stay cool, keep your sense of humor, adapt.

Just my 2 cents worth.

other Pete

When you have more than three of anything. Something of which I am unquestionably guilty.


Having said that:

Two firelighting sources in your pockets.
One means to purify water.
One means to carry it.
One means of wind/water proofing your shelter.
Cordage.
Basic first aid.
Signaling. Torch, mirror and whistle.
Knife/multitool.

Pack the same again in your bag.

It's also worth having a third set of gear to practice with. That way, if it drops in the pot you are familiar and practiced with your equipment. That can be very confidence enhancing when it drops in the pot.

Here is how I have redundancy.A multi tool or SAK is a back up to my 3 inch locking folder.The folder is a back up to my fixed blade sheath knife when carried.They are all used interchangably depending on the task at hand.
Some things can be back ups with out repeating.Water filters can be backed up by purification tablets.If your water bottle is a Guyot or Klean Kanteen you can boil your water in it.
The main idea is a back up for critical items that are hard or impossible to recreate in the wild is strongly recommended.

BOATMAN
John

Mark,

A GREAT topic, even if there is no single answer. There have been lots of good thoughts presented. It came at an interesting time for me, I am rebuilding my day pack for the comming year.
As posted before, the use and location may make a difference, but even though I am planning for geologic work in wilderness Alaska, the majority of things I carry are the same for a day hike in Florida with my grandson (a Scout). The major difference is clothing. The REAL survival stuff ( the things I don't use except in emergencies) is very limited. A PLB, PSK and mini FAK on the person, plus the usual extra items (The list with the Ritter/AMK kit is a good one) are about it.

However, let's think about the things we EDC that are not carried as survival items, but could be very useful. I will use two of the more important as examples: Water - I carry a Guyot and/or Wiggy's SS bottle, not for survival but normal use. Is it redundant? Yes and No. The water in it is certainly not, it is for normal use. Could it be used to carry or boil water in an emergency - of course. The improvisation is not even much. But is it redundant? I would say not. It is the daily use item and I carry plastic bags (breast milk bags) in my PSK as backup.

The same is true of fire, I carry a match safe in my pocket at all times. But it is not survival gear, but my daily use matches (never got into Bic's). These are used as needed, something I never do with survival gear. The matches in my PSK and the sparklite, and the magnifying glass are there for emergencies. Since I carry a handlens for work there is another level of redundancy. Or is it? I don't count it as such, even though it can be used for that.

I consider any of my daily use items as potential survival items, but since I use them, they are subject to being lost, damaged or used up. For that reason I don't consider them redundant. Almost every item in my PSK has a counterpart in my ruck that is for daily use. They should be there for emergencies but I don't count on them to be available.

I am probably stronger on redundancy than most, but it comes from having to open the "open only in emergencies" kit too many times and spending a lot of time alone in the far reaches.



The best,

Jerry

Well, okay, there's alternative redundancy and then there's outright duplication. If given the choice, the preference should always lean toward multi taskers, although bear in mind that also almost always means a compromise in functionality.

As I learned in Baghdad (origin of the parable about the straw and the camel's back??), after donning 50+ lbs of armor in 100+ degrees, the weight of the gear bag is so critical I would consider breaking my wooden pencil in half or more to lighten the load.

Jerry, glad my timing worked out well for you. I am still struggling with the idea and concept of redundancy as I put kits together and I appreciate everyone who has taken the time to read and comment. Please keep the ideas and comments coming. I may post lists in the future so I can get specific comments on where I am overdoing it and what I can "chop" from the list to lighten the load. Thanks again everyone.