I see the stress for redundancy mostly about being prepared for multiple situations. As noted by the examples in the original most, most redundancy reflects having a specialized device in your main pack and having a smaller, lighter backup device on your person. Your main pack serves as the supplies for the main gamut of emergency situations. Your on-person backup serves for the scenario in which you cannot access your main pack.

This type of redundancy has objective purpose, and is so warranted in my opinion. If you find redundancy that does not serve and actual purpose, that would be venturing into “Too Much” land.

All such good answers!

IMO, it kind of depends on where you're going and what you're doing, and the conditions you're likely to be doing them under.

You probably wouldn't need a full (say 30-lb) backpack to go to work. It would get old fast, and then you'd start leaving it at home, and if you did need it, that would be the time you did.

If you're just going to work a few miles from home, you could take a basic PSK. It's not likely you would need a lot of firemaking materials or a signal mirror or separate shelter other than what you're wearing.

If you commute thirty miles through forest or mostly unpopulated country, you might carry a smaller backpack that was relatively lightweight for warmer seasons, and possibly more stuff in a larger pack for colder seasons.

If you do a lot of traveling throughout your state, or fly your own plane, etc, you'd probably want to keep quite a bit more stuff in a backback that would leave your hands free.

Plan for what you're doing and where you're going.

If you can't lift the pack off the ground, you've got too much stuff in it.

Sue

If your redundancy prevents you from carrying other important gear, then its too much.

To me its all about what you really will carry. If you're not carrying it, then you probably won't have it when you need it. Less can be better.

Several people here have posted the same thoughts I have on redundancy. It really depends on where you are headed to and the expected odds, if you will, of needing redundancy.

When we go hiking locally near populated areas and on trails that see a lot of use, the kit and redundant items is much different then a kit I take for a multi day backpacking trip into the high country miles away from other people and immediate help (if any).

Nonetheless, there are critical items that are always redundant regardless of event, distance and number of people involved. For example, in my pack, amongst many other items, I carry a BIC lighter, large clear plastic contractors sized bag, small FAK, flashlight, Swedish Steel, Swiss Army Knife or multi-tool, compass. These critical and redundant items are also carried in my pants/jacket pockets or on my belt in the event I ever loose my pack. With these redundant items, my odds of survival have increased significantly.

When I go into the deep woods, I carry a small PSK that fits very tightly in a 6"x7"x2" military pouch that I can place on my belt, or in my game pouch. It has everything I need to survive in the woods in my area for a week or more, and to signal my presence to a SaR team. It is my intention never to open it in the field unless I am in a survival situation. Some of the essential items are lashed together in the pouch and secured with a nylon flag clip. I carry a Wave, mini binocs, a small cell phone, and duplicates of a few items from my PSK in my pockets or belt for use: cord-wrapped sheath knife, 2 bics (one in jacket/shirt, one in pants), whistle, main compass, mini light, and clif bar/trail mix. If I am with someone, I carry a 5 watt GMRS radio too.

Ok I have seen some very good responses, I guess it is my turn to put in my .02...

My mind set is in my EDC I have a swiss army knife, a lighter, a flashlight and a $20 bill.

My PSK expounds on that because I keep it in my vehicle. I have a spare set of cloths (vacuum packed) a jacket (seasonal), a propane lighter, some trail food (granola bars, crackers and cheese etc...) a gun (personal choice - dont want to get into a discussion about that) a canteen 3/4 full and a GPS/GMFR.

In My BOB I expound even further - I wont go into all that I have in there but for example: several sets of cloths, shelter making provisions, MREs for several days, an alcohol stove. What I am getting at is I do redundancy as required according to the mission and lenght of expected time out. I agree with what the others said about having redundancy but not duplication. If something isnt working, then trying the same thing with an identical tool isnt going to produce any better results.


I also agree with the comments made that it has to be something that is ever changing and fitted to your needs. Like I said all I am doing is throwing my opinion into the ring. And you know what they say about opinions, everyone has one.

Good luck.

One good quality Glass Signal Mirror should be all you need. Although a bigger mirror work better one should be enough.

I tell my courses all the time, the more you take the more chances you will have to leave the whole lot behind! (Although physical training and fitness helps).

Think redundancy in terms of taking two or three separate signalling devices, not two of the same. If possible these items should be in two separate places as well (added redundancy).

Ok, now we are getting somewhere. Here's some questions and comments that may help further the discussion.

First a little clarification. No military/combat situations, I'm just an average joe with a son in cub scouts trying to make sure we are ready for the first round of spring campouts that are just around the corner. With these campouts there are usually hiking opportunities as well. DS and I both have our own "bugout gear" if you will. If DS gets lost or separated from the rest of the boys and/or myself I want him to be able to signal for help, make a fire and shelter for the night, and otherwise be safe and comfortable until help arrives. Of course there are practical applications to other aspects of our lives. My hope is that the same gear can be tossed in our car in case it breaks down (the trip to Grandma's takes us through several stretches of road where there may be up to 30 miles between exits) or we crash in a ditch, etc. DS is also old enough and enthusiastic enough that we are planning several weekend camping/hiking/fishing/any other outdoor activities we can squeeze in trips this spring and summer to complement/supplement the scouting trips. It would be a lot more convenient IMO to have one set of gear to serve these purposes, rather than build separate kits for car, scouting, home, etc. Is this naive on my part? I am envisioning a rather portable pack or some kind of modular system that can be added to or stripped down as the situation dictates. My thinking is a mini-PSK on our person when additional pack items are not neccessary (say for a short hike close to home or for EDC); add a daypack with additional items for something like a longer day-hike at one of the local state parks or with the scouts; transfer to a full pack for overnighters. But again in all three circumstances, be it EDC, day-hikes, or overnighters, I still question how much redundancy is neccessary and how much is too much?

It also seems I have been misinterpreting redundancy. If I understand unimogbert and nighthiker, if I am carrying a signal mirror, whistle, big orange poncho, and firemaking items, then I am carrying 4 layers of signaling items, right? Redundancy doesn't neccessarily mean carrying one whistle around your neck, one in your pack, still another on your keyring and a final one in your pocket. So if I am carrying a heatsheet blanket or bivvy AND a poncho I am 2 layers deep for shelter. And so on. But it also seems I should still have some redundancy in the critical specific items like firemaking. The reason I say this is I am not confident in my ability to make fire with a bow drill or magnifying lens. Don't get me wrong I understand the basic concepts. Just no practical application to back it up. One of my biggest weaknesses I am afraid. A lot of theory with little practical hands on experience. I hope to correct this shortfall over the next several years but for now I have a long way to go.

I am starting to see some patterns. The amount of redundancy everyone carries seems to be relative to:

- environment
- skill set
- mission

Also the items most people are redundant in are relative mainly to environment. Those in cold environments carry more fire and shelter items; those in the desert are redundant in water and shelter items; and so on. I suspected from the get-go this would be true. At least I was right about something. Personal experience also seems to play a part but this can become dangerous. A person could go years without needing a particular item, thus they leave it out of their kit. Or worse they come to the conclusion they don't need their kit at all. Then one day they need it and they don't have it. But I digress.

Buckeye your gear choices seem to mirror much of my own except for the steel wool and tarp. Unimogbert, as little as DS and I have done we already have several boxes of extra stuff so you can keep yours. AFLM, no junk. We've got eQ headlamps (the DR version), heatsheets bivvys and blankets, PSPs, and similar quality stuff. MH I am always reevaluating, just emphasizing in this case if I need to reevaluate the redundancy issue for the sake of a lighter pack or if I need to spend more time at the gym before spring arrives. I want to trim the pack, just not too much, hence the original question. I have checked out the thread you mentioned and it probably helped my decision to start this one. I was hoping the question would have an easier answer but then nothing in life worth having is easy, is it? Just the chance to peek into everyone else's redundant gear is priceless and I really appreciate the contributions to the discussion thus far. I also appreciate the different perspectives from EDC to wilderness gear and everything in between. Feel free to break it down by category such as EDC, Day Hike, Cross Country, Car Kit, etc. Sue, the pack weight is exactly part of the problem with DS and his gear. It has in it what seems to be just the basics yet it's still too heavy. I separated it into what he would likely be carrying on his person and what would remain in the pack. Some redundancy occurred. That's another factor that made me think about starting this thread. Check out Wildman's thread on "building a BOB for an eight year old" to see the contents. Exactly Ken, but on the flip side of this discussion, when does less become too little? I guess that would be either the thread on the Ultalight hikers or possibly food for another thread, but it is not entirely unrelevant to the current discussion. I digress again. This post is getting really really long so I will try to conclude. Byrd has a point about an emergency kit being sealed until it is actually needed (imagine using up your supply of kit matches because you kept them in your pocket as EDC instead). Epirider it is not if something isn't working (as in the lighter is not catching wet tinder) but rather if the gear fails completely you have a backup (lighter inadvertently ran out of fuel but I have a cache of matches or another lighter in reserve to back it up). Sorry this was so long. Hope i get some more input. Thanks again.

I appreciate - REALLY! - what you are doing. I too have a son (10)and I know what you are saying. It is very regional how we all pack, as well as situational and seasonal. I pack the way I pack because I have lived, worked and played in this neck of the woods for 30+ years. I have developed my packs based on how I perceive my needs. For example if I may - if my lighter fails, I have a different method of making fire, but I will have fire none the less. My pack would not work (optimally) for anyone but me and my skill set. That is not to say that Joe Schmoe couldnt hoist it (them) up and do VERY well with it.

I hope that you take from my posting that there are several options out there that embrace yet vary redundancy. I build on or reduce according to my other packs. This may not work for you and that is fine. Redundancy is based IMHO on YOUR comfort level. If you are comfortable carrying 1 pair of socks with you and 25 different methods of purifying water, then that is what works for you.

I wish you luck and fun this summer, more importantly I hope you and your son are safe and make lasting memories that you can smile back upon. Peace.

The line between preparedness and redundancy is fluid in concept, and constantly differs in practice based on experience, skill, budget, personality, and intent. So no one answer fits all.

I agree with those who suggest looking not to particular gear so much, but to survival function. I start with whatever gear and supplies I think is needed to conquer the "Rule of Threes:" you can perish in 3 minutes without air, in 3 hours of exposure to harsh environment, in 3 days without water, and in 3 weeks without food.

In putting gear and supplies together I think in terms of layes and of multi-task flexibility. I do not consider them redundant but complimentary.

I carry one layer of stuff that seek to address each of the rule of three challenges in my EDC, in my PSK, and in my normal use camping / hiking / traveling gear. If I am traveling in my vehicle I have a fourth set in my vehicle kit. In this way I already have multiple sets of gear / supplies.

Where I can, I choose gear and supplies for each layer that are also multi-function. Things like knives, paracord, freezer bags, space blankets, candles, fishing monofilament, fish hooks, snare wire, duct tape, etcetera, each have so many uses that carrying each creates further levels of preparedness. Learning and practicing multiple uses of gear and supplies is a major preparedness theme.

Edit: I also choose to learn "primitive' skills that offer the ability to recreate whatever I need from the environment with no gear or supplies.