Paying membership / Premium would be optional
And I believe non-paying would lose nothing they already have now.

A general reply, thoughts and comments, not a response to Russ or previous post.

Not worried about my name being out there; it is already. And unless you google or search with the exact name as it appears here you won't make it to the posts on this forum (I tried mine without underscore; five pages into the search and still no references to ETS; I only found my posts when I put the underscore between my first and last). However this could be an issue for others, due to their employment or whatever. And as I said in a previous post I would be more comfortable buying from Blast or Ironraven than John Smith or Edward Jones. Keep the handles and only submit verifiable personal information confidentially to ETS. Or like nighthiker said names are only visible to those in the membership area (I would still like the handle attached to it though for reasons already stated). Blast may have a point, though, with respect to all the nut-jobs out there. I don't think that would include anyone here eligible for benefactor status though. Dagny has a point too. I've discovered many people's names via PM and private e-mails. But to be honest (and to ease any worries for those who have) I only remember them for a little while and eventually just go back to looking for the handle again. Nothing personal, just the way it is.

A chat feature might be nice. It is one of the features that makes interaction on facebook quicker. Not sure I agree with archiving chats though. It would be too easy to forget that others would have access. IMO, if someone is having an earth-shattering chat, they should go ahead and make it into a thread anyway. Otherwise keep chats relatively private.

Definitely NO naked doug bobbleheads (no offense DR).

Start at $12 a year and go from there. Those who need a bigger tax deduction can donate more on top of that.

The digital tools is a great idea. I assume you are talking about a way to remind users it is time to replace items in their kits, change smoke detector batteries, send mom a birthday card, etc. Of course that may not be as appealing to those with blackberries or similar devices that do that already.

I really like the idea of a discount on purchasing the DR gear. That would have been real nice before Christmas. But, like someone else said, it shouldn't offset the ETS benefit too much. Perhaps even a discount on other gear purchased from various manufacturers. Or a discount at a particular online store. I am sure they would not mind offering such a discount for reaching a fairly large buying audience. A discount on purchases alone would be worth the cost. The numbers (i.e. percent of discount) should be easy to figure out.

Meetups, not so much of a benefit. We can do that already (campfire forum, "Hey guys lets meet at X," done). Not much of that goes on anyway as someone already mentioned.

Access to video content doesn't really interest me but others might like the option.

Sales could be in a new forum that is, as Dagny suggested, closed to all but "premium" members. Sounds like this is off the table anyway. But then who is to say that regular members couldn't slip a hint that they have extras of item X and anyone interested can pm them? Perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned that?

I still think there needs to be an "or" in deciding who is eligible for membership. Those with x posts and x time; OR those with more than x time. But as I said before, in the end, someone will be mad or offended and leave. On the other hand, everyone should understand that there has to be a cut-off somewhere. Perhaps if you are close to a criteria an exception could be made. Let's not make this more difficult than it needs to be though.

As to what other benefits would be available, that is the 64,000 dollar question. Sounds like early access to shot show reviews is out as is a marketplace of sorts (although I kinda like those myself, don't see why they would be a problem either). Other good ideas are discounts for purchases; chat; digital tool; opportunity for special purchase items (like a knife collecting society does sometimes but for things in addition to knives like a DR signed heatsheet - the RSK in M4 steel would have been a good example of the type of special purchases membership could offer); access to early announcements of new products, first purchase opportunities, or guaranteed purchase opportunities (such as for the RSK M4 or the PSP Plus); access to special areas of the website (not 100% sure what those might be but a marketplace or swapshop would have been nice); opportunity to help DR/ETS test new gear; access to local DR seminars, say once a year; or an ETS newsletter via e-mail. Of course if you don't like a certain feature, no one says you have to use it. You can still pay your dues, get a tax deduction, and access the features you want.

I am definitely against "real name" handles. Folks should be able to choose how much privacy they want online.

Agree with others that making previous years and years of posts fade into the background unless you have a premium membership is a bad idea. People should be able to search through past archives, as there is a wealth of information there.

A minimum threshold of 200 posts to become a member sounds like a bad idea.

If money is going to be charged for access to certain parts of the forum or web site... there should appropriately be exclusive web content, discounts, offers, downloads, or extra features involved somehow.

May I suggest a supporter or membership "badge" next to a person's forum name when posting to show they have recently donated to ETS. Perhaps a quarterly renewal option with varying degrees of monetary contribution? Maybe $1, $5, $10, $15, or $20 quarterly? Forums such as edcforums.com, knifeforums.com, and candlepowerforums.com have such a feature.

IMHO, the ETS forum is the best thing available online for real world survival-related content. So many knowledgeable and friendly people here. It would be great if the forums could be self-supporting.

I'd love that too. I can't afford any of it right now.

But two things...
1) DR gear supports the foundation. So, you would give some money up front and then they could lose a fair amount more over the course of a year. Its a bit cannibalistic.
2) In my discussions with DR he has alluded to the idea that the DR gear doesn't have enormous markups to begin with.

Certainly a nice thing to wish for but I think its counterproductive to the ultimate goal.

I'd like to see an ability to mark posts as favorites, a voting mechanism, that would make very relevant posts with great information easier to find. You know, a lot of places like ted.com or digg have a little +1 or thumbs up.

Then when you are searching for posts on a topic, these "value" posts rise to the top, whereas "attaboys" and "will this work with my ipod?" drop to the bottom.

This would really add a lot of value for me!

Good post. I should buy more DR gear.

Perhaps we should pitch in and assist in the production of more good, profitable DR items.

And then I thought of Blast, teaching his survival class...Could ETS sponsor a series of classes (perhaps online) that would go above and beyond (and more intensively) that the presentations on the website. As Art-in-Fl points out in the thread on knots, a hands on class is the best way to acquire that skill (and no doubt, most others).

A digest of some of the more significant threads (the Best of ETS) with an overall summation and evaluation would be darned handy, and probably worth some money. That might be a worthwhile subscription service...

Just brainstorming on a rainy day.....

BTW, I am Bob from Illinois in case you have wondered where the handle came from.

I understand that some people have a thing against semi-anonymous handles people often use on public forums. These days its basically a self defense mechanism against employers and other people who snoop on your Internet activities. People have seen their lives destroyed over innocent (sometimes not so innocent) posts on the Internet. I'd just as soon not make it real easy for them.

My real name, address, and phone number are in the phone book, so this is not just paranoia. If you Google my cell phone number it comes up with my real name as well as a fair amount of personal information i would just as soon not be real readily available. I have a fairly common first and last name so that gives me some anonymity in any case. I now have a Google voice number that if I want to post it somewhere I can feel reasonably secure about doing so. Its not protection against government level snoopers but will keep the average snooper at bay.

At one time I posted under my real name on a number of mailing lists and groups, but these days I have modified my behavior to be a little more discrete. I still use an email address that has my real name in it. On a number of forums that I post on my real name is known to a fair number of fellow posters, but I would just as soon make the choice of who I introduce myself to.

As for a paid subscription, I am too new here to tell you whether I would be interested or not. There are a couple of forums I participate in that I have contributed to, but not on a subscription basis. Just occasional donations. Paypal is a good choice for donations IMO.

If the intent is to prevent viewing of the forum for those who don't pay, I think that is a mistake. The mission of the foundation is enhanced by people using search engines to come here and read a post or two about specific things.

I have not formed an opinion on whether it is a good or bad idea to limit posting privileges to paying members. My gut tells me it is counterproductive, but I also admit it has merit. OTOH, if someone wants to ask a few questions about a specific thing, the subscription fee is going to a major deterrent.

If I stick around for any length of time and become an active poster I probably would make occasional donations. I have to say that if it is forced on me, at this time anyway, I would probably move on.

If your interested in suggestions for improvements, beyond 'premium membership' I have two:

How about a simple numbering system for each thread. First commenter is number one, second number two ... you get he idea. Being able to reference a comment and commenter by both name and location within the thread would make things easier. Particularly on longer threads.

Far easier to reference "Joeblow at #12" and pop up to find his comment and context at #12 than having to find the name and particular instance, Joeblow may have commented several times in the one thread, in a stack of fifty or a hundred comments. Using a comment number might replace some of the longer quotations, reduce bandwidth requirements, and slightly reduce costs.

Second, the present system of accessing a thread gives you pages (1,2,3) and (all) which is good except that going to the last page often ends up where you get one or two entries so you need to page back to get a feel for the flow of the comments. To avoid this annoyance I find myself just hitting 'all' and downloading the whole thread when all I really want to look at is the entries added since I last looked at the thread.

The issue here is that downloading the entire thread is a lot of bandwidth when all you really wanted was to see the additions made in the last 24 or 48 hours, typically less than a dozen entries.

What I'm suggesting is that thee needs to be a radio button for the last ten entries. Select an appropriate set number. Or some way of specifying additions made in the last day or two. Again, select an appropriate time period.

Both changes could lower the cost of operating the site and make the site more user friendly and quick to use.

Just want to add my support to a few important small points:

- Pay-for-posting-privileges: Don't even think about it, at least not for the public (main) part of the forum.

- Any payment is voluntarily, not mandatory. You pay because you want to support ETS and/or because you'd like to access some extra goodies in the premium section. The important part: This is a free choice. Try forcing people to pay for something on the internet and their gut reaction is to vaporize faster than taxis on a rainy day.





I don't have this problem. When I'm logged in and want to view a thread I always jump straight to the newest post in that thread. There probably are some control settings to modify this behavior. I haven't fiddled with them, but since I'm a fairly new member my standard (default) settings might be different from yours. Shoot me a PM if you'd like me to investigate.

An opinion from a new poster,

This looks to be a good forum, but it is by no means unique. There are plenty of survival forums out there. I like this one so far, but if someone wanted me to pay I would just hop on somewhere else. I know some people think that children and unexperienced outdoorsmen everywhere are using this forum extensively in classrooms and the like but I would disagree with that statement. Survival forums are a dime a dozen these days.

This forum is like any other. A bunch of people I will most likely never meet stating what they think about this and that, What new gizmo they like or don't like etc etc. Its great to use as a place to chat to like minded folks, but I will never take anything I read here(or anywhere else) on a forum as gospel. If people are using this forum to actually teach in a classroom they really need to give their heads a shake IMO.

If I were to pay for the information I am "privilaged" to recieve from a forum I best be getting my information directly from Lofty Wiseman or Les Stroud.

Based on the number of members, it might be the largest one that does not permit discussion of collateral issues.

I have a hard time believing it is used in all that many classrooms. A lot of places would have a hissy fit if even a SAK was shown to children these days.

These days they suspend children from school for merely drawing pictures of guns or knives. There is not going to be any instruction in most schools that advocates the use of knives or, God forbid, fishing equipment.