I recently found this recommended list of backpacking equipment, which notes that a knife, firemaking supplies, and a flashlight are seldom carried. However, deodorant appears to be a necessity. I understand that you might not need a knife for the type of camping that this guy does, but I see a knife and fire as a survival necessities. Also, no whistle, mirror, food gathering equipment, etc. He packs light, but aren't there some things that he shouldn't do without?

This is what makes me a light hiker and not ultralight. I could be UL very easily if I didn't carry my preparedness gear. My wilderness EDC is an extra pound or two of base weight. Put into the context of what he doesn't carry and how he eats, there is no reason in his mind for a knife. YMMV

He is a RayWay guy. Nothing wrong with that but I am guessing from his site he is more into the long hikes on established trails and living in a self sufficent bubble that precludes having to cut anything. Though even Ray says he carries a small swiss amry classic or some scissors.

Little or no margin for the unexpected or unusual. But he does have experience, which can compensate to a degree. He seems to stick to the established backpacker interstates, e.g. the Appalachian Trail. In wilder country some adjustments might be a good idea. I notice no FAK, a very bad idea, in my opinion. If you don't need it, someone you encounter will.

his perspective does have some good points - for him.

imho, this boils down to your own personal comfort zone.

he's comfortable relying on others to provide what he doesn't deem necessary to carry. if you re-read the article with this in mind, you'll see what i mean.

he's also appears comfortable relying on others to find him if he becomes lost or injured.

for me, i carry those items he may deem unnecessary because i'd like to be comfortable while trying to self-rescue myself, or if unable to self-rescue, to be safe, warm, dry, hydrated and comfortable awaiting others.

I wouldn't want to be hiking with this gentleman.
He's harping about deodorant, but sees no use for soap or a toothbrush. Yikes !!!!

It's foolhardy to be in the wilderness without a knife, even on an established trail.

He's the kind of outdoorsman we read about here periodically; the solo hiker who runs into misfortune and has to be rescued or, as too often is the case, dies on the trail.

Mother nature doesn't care about how much gear you carry.

UL hikers play the odds.
Most know the risks.

There's a one-armed hiker somewhere, who might argue the usefulness of a knife.

I can't agree with the "knife-seldom" bit. There are too many knives that weigh so little. And knives are so useful. I understand the UL philosophy but this is not a UL article. Its an article about "starting backpacking".

More often than not, I am reminded of this:



- Quote from Laurence Gonzales: Deep Survival. (Highly recommended reading, by the way).


I try to learn a few tricks from the ultra light crowd, there's a lot of weight and volume to be shed from my packs. What I am missing from these particular UL is the extra layer of protection - as noted earlier in this thread, the equivalent of a PSK kit and some first aid items doesn't offset you by more than a pound or two, but is worth more than its weight in gold when something bad happens.

Those UL hikers have their shelter, hydration and food pretty well covered. But what about a repair kit (some duct tape, sewing needles, cordage, zip ties?)? Signaling? And of course, a knife... the ultimate wilderness multitool.

You have to understand that he is hiking, not focused on survival in an unplanned emergency. He is traveling through known territory and is very familiar with the terrain, conditions, and how both he and his gear function. He seems to be spending most trips well below the tree line and in fairly close proximity to developed areas. It is increasingly difficult to find a trail that isn't a five mile hike to civilization if your familiar with the area and know which way to go. The ability to move fast and cover ground rapidly unburdened by excess gear and the relative closeness of settlements is highly conducive to self-rescue.

It is also likely that he is so used to being near the edge, and unburdened by a gewgaw for every situation, that he will hike out of the situation before he sees it as an emergency rather than need rescue.

I think you greatly underestimating how various pieces of gear change your odds. A FAK is, the vast majority of them in the vast majority of serious situations, useless. Mostly the bandaids get used. I have and usually do carry one, depends on the situation, but it has to be noted that the bandanna and tape and other gear he has can work quite well in the majority of situations. Most camping injuries are minor cuts and burns (far fewer of the later if you don't have a fire), minor discomforts that aren't going to kill you, like most diarrhea and sunburn, or so serious that you really would be far smarter to call for help instead of playing doctor. About the only thing in your FAK that can't be easily improvised are the drugs and those, in small quantities, are unlikely to violate his pack light philosophy. Four Imodium, a half dozen Ibuprofen and a half dozen Benadryl don't weigh much.

I would add a mini-Bic and a tiny knife to his list, he does mention them, but I realize that a fire isn't often even an amenity when hiking and once your gear has been fine tuned over many weeks of heavy use the knife isn't going to get much use. I tend to want to tinker and make stuff in and around camp and both the lighter and knife would earn their keep just keeping me entertained.

But, as I started, you have to keep in mind this is not a survival situation for him like camping is for so many. This is his environment. He is like a fish at sea.

When I drive to the store it's a well travelled route through known territory where I know the terrain and conditions and yet I still carry tools and a spare tire. LOL

As a member of the ETS community and thinking as one who tends to study and talk about the topics we do, I don't agree with his conclusions. No big deal. If I saw him crumpled on the trail I'd offer him the use of my FAK and lend a hand. I'd probably be a jerk about it the whole time too. You know, ask him if he'd like me to drag him back to civilization in his sleeping bag greased by his deoderant to reduce the friction.

"Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want." -- Pat Rogers

On a similar note, I remember a post here on the ETS forums that discussed one Ultra-light Hiker's article where he mentioned that he didn't carry a FAK because they weighed too much and because other hikers on the trail would have one.

I don't know if this and other weight saving ideas are commonplace among the ultra-light hiker community, but it burns my bacon to think that they're putting the onus on others because extra weight will affect the expediency of their trip.

I bet stopping to help them would affect the enjoyment of my trip, and yet I'd still do it.

I may be a wild eyed, foaming at the mouth FAK fanatic because I think that having some sort of FAK in almost any environment is a good idea. I totally agree with you that the majority of situations can be handled with no more than a bandaid. In fact, when I was safety officer for my office, I made sure there was a box of bandaids and a bottle of aspirin adjacent to each FAK, so that the more serious components in the kit would not be messed up by people foraging for the means to take care of their hangovers and minor owwies.

Still, there are those other occasions. The plumber next door falling off the roof, lying prostrate in a pool of blood; the fellow office worker in a grand mal seizure on an otherwise normal Saturday afternoon; the poorly supervised worker who got tangled up with a Bobcat(small loader type vehicle) and broke his leg. These all happened in an urban environment and competent aid was just a 911 away, but even in these situations, good first aid principles needed to be applied promptly (isn't that why they call it first aid?). A point that has been made many times is that training is the most important element in the "kit." Good training generally keeps from doing unwise and damaging procedures, like improper and unnecessary moving, proper assessing of the ABCs, etc.

A former girl friend was halfway through a CPR course and shopping for groceries, when a fellow shopper collapsed unconscious right next to her. You just just never know.....

Getting into the woods, it really does become a little dicier, even if you are only "five miles from town," although here again, most of the situations can be handled with a bandaid. Not all however. There was the climber we encountered who had taken a fist sized rock right in the middle of his forehead (fortunately he was wearing a helmet). This encounter seriously altered our schedule for that day, since we were about fifty miles from town.

I, personally, have frequently bandaged up a "tweaked" knee or ankle on both myself or a companion in order to hobble back to the car which is one reason I am a particular fan of elastic bandages. I recall one trip to Rainbow Bridge years ago when all six Ace bandages in the party were holding a joint together. We were a good hundred miles from a town on that occasion.

I am sure my attitude toward emergency preparedness has been colored by my SAR experiences, but I have seen too many situations where something like a lousy match and a handful of tinder would have made all the difference in the world and lives would have definitely been saved.

Too many of these episodes start out with "I had no intention of walking so far," "getting onto that high cliff," "fording that stream - it seemed so shallow" sort of statements. I have been particularly impressed with the number of times that building a fire and even minimal first aid knowledge would have made a difference in survival.

Distance from town really isn't that incredibly significant. Of course, the further out you are, the more likely it is that assistance will be lacking, or at least delayed for an unknown period. The question is, when a emergency arrives, are you going to start dealing with it right now, or are you going to be dependent on the actions and abilities of others to get out of the scrape? Are you relatively self reliant or just another bird sitting on the wire?

By the way, I don't want to make too much of self reliance. There are limits. In both of the cases of the plumber and fellow worker cited above, I was very impressed with the speedy and competent response by the local emergency medical system (FD). It is great to have those folks around, but what do you do when they are delayed or unavailable?

Just to take a far out hypothetical example, presume we had a magnitude 7.0 earthquake here in SoCal, and perhaps, just perhaps, the paramedic might need more than five minutes to respond to my broken arm? What then?

Depending on the severity of the UL illness, a FAK would be as small as bandaids, some GI distress tabs and Advil or Tylenol.

Most UL hikers when they are in that mode, have a steady resupply of gear through the mail. They have their support team mailing packages to them while enroute or they mail ahead all the supplies they need for the next section but not the current. Also UL hikers tend to hit a town every 4-5 days at most to get their supplies and will stay in town an extra day to recover. So its easy to fix any medical condition and Charlie Mike (Continue Mission).

This is a different mindset from preparedness minded folk who by nature predict the necessity of gear otherwise forgotten. I am trying to blend the two with interesting results.

As a beginning course on backpacking like this man teaches I personally would never endorse the RayWay right off the bat. But that is me. I have the person invest in good gear that is off-the-rack and stupid proof, not homemade. This person is telling a newbie to eschew a tent for a tarp? If I took his course w/ what I know, I'd challenge that advice for a new person.

That is why deoderant is critical for him. Personally, I'd rather be little gymmie but have happy feet and a mouth that doesn't feel like it was used by a wolf pack as a latrine. But he makes comments about hitting up OutBack and getting pizza.

Sorry, uh, no. If I wanted that, I'd "camp" in the the backyard.

That is why deoderant is critical for him.

that's funny.

"You have to understand that he is hiking, not focused on survival in an unplanned emergency... he will hike out of the situation before he sees it as an emergency rather than need rescue."

I'll bet that is the 'plan' for every UL hiker whose body they haven't found yet. How's the search for those last two missing on Mt. Hood?

Deodorant but no soap - dumb and careless.

No knife or lighter - past dumb.

He usually wears a cheap pair of nylon running shorts usually... in the cold and in the desert, and walks in the snow wearing sneakers -- it seems we've read about people like this before. Very good, Class, now how do you spell 'hypothermia'?

No real flashlight, but he hikes the mountains at night...

This guy is 'light' all right, can you guess where?

Yes, he's one of those who has never had much of a problem on a hike, so he thinks he will NEVER have a problem on a hike.

And I'll bet he carries a cell phone or PLB so he can scream for help should the need arise.

Pfffft!

Sue

Very good and thought provoking post, Art_in_FL

From the wording in the article it is pretty evident that this guy a) often hikes with others, b) hikes on trails with a lot of traffic. These hikers take full advantage of the fact that there is safety in numbers. This forum doesn't really approve because you a) can't really guarantee any "numbers" of hikers when you really need them, and b) what if you deliberately or by mistake take the path less traveled? Even if we really don't like it we should acknowledge that the number of hikers on these trails is a significant safety factor.


Another aspect that is just as important: These UL hikers are already equipped with warm shelters (hopefully they're warm enough) and the ability to procure water. If something bad happens they can hunker down in their sleeping bag under their tarp and stay there. Though I would like to see some fire making abilities (to dry equipment, get a warm drink and so on) their sleeping system is plenty warm enough (hopefully with some margin for colder weather...). An UL hiker is a hundred times better prepared for, well - anything - than your average day hiker.


There are actually very small changes required to make me happy with the described UL setup:

- A game plan with some responsible friends or relatives. (If I'm not in town X by Tuesday, I'm stuck with a problem somewhere along tray Y).

- Just a tiny wee bit more in the first aid department. (Bandaid/steri strips, some sterile pads or equivalent, pain killers).

- Some repair goodies: A sewing kit, zip ties? Cordage, strong 2mm nylon line is OK for most tasks. He already carries duct tape.

- A tiny wee more "wilderness camping" capabilities: Knife, fire making items, a titanium cup (it'll have to do as pot).

- Signalling: Whistle, signaling mirror. Bright pieces of clothing/equipment.

- Navigation: A small button compass.

Those items add perhaps a pound or so, but makes a huge difference when the unexpected happens at the worst possible moment.

IF this guy doesn't stray from known well traveled trails...

IF this guy doesn't encounter any severe weather conditions...

If this guy doesn't mind depending on the largesse of other hikers he meets who will be more than happy to help him out of difficult situations...

IF this guy likes to brag that he hiked 35 miles in one day along the trail, basically seeing nothing because he had his head down plowing along like a freight train...

If this guy doesn't mind being laughed at by "normal" people...

and finally

IF this guy doesn't mind being basically miserable his entire time in the wood...

Then yes, this guy's wilderness philosphy is perfect, for him.

Personally, I wouldn't go into the woods with this guy. Wait, he doesn't really go camping anyhow. God forbid he left the trail, except to go use his 6 sheets of single ply potty paper.

Ok, enough typing, I am going to save 1.2 oz by tearing the labels off the underwear I normally pack.

I really don't mind this guy's choices of equipment. He is exercising his right to play Russian roulette. However, I find it totally irresponsible to publish this kind of "advice". It may mean suffering or death for unexperienced hikers.

Like a lot of other people here, I had an epiphany:
This person is on a self powered tour. He or she walks well established trails, while hauling minimal gear because each night is spent in the safety of a campground, every couple of days they stop at a post-office to resupply, and forward their real 'camping' loadout to the next stop. Bet they carry a cellphone or maybe a SPOT. Their choice to eat crushed snail-trail mix a couple of times a day. Eating that stuff, they only need the minimal TP, as it's likely only a twice a week habit for them. In a bad weather event, they know they have rations, warmth, and shelter to hole up for awhile. It's not survival as most interpret it. Survival is acting to get yourself out of whatever situation you find yourself in, these people revel in travelling by foot with as little as possible, but with a support system for resupply.

You too could do it with even less gear by making reservations at hotels along your route, and send packages addressed to you, at those locations, leapfrogging the packages, if you timed everything right, you could sleep in a warm room, in a bed, and have the luxury of running hot water daily.
You could pack pajamas in your boxes, so you'd always be able to
do laundry. You could take advantage of the sink and wash clothes, and possibly dry them with a hair dryer, rather than lug them around to air dry.
If you scheduled it right, you could even have a couple of hot meals cooked by others for your benefit.
All you might need is the clothes on your back, a fanny pack or purse to haul water bottles, cellphone, snack bars and credit cards. But it's not survival.

I would rather smell bad and have the knife than smell good and need the knife. But maybe it's just my animal magnetism...

My knife and my firesteel would be the first things I would grab and the last I would give up.

It just occurred to me: NOTHING smells worse than rancid, old sweaty synthetic inner garments. Replace with wool underwear and the unpleasentness of the stench is reduced by a factor of 100. Other benefits are increased insulation when wet and excellent fire resistance.

A well sharpened Classic is surprisingly capable. I EDC one on my keychain, along with a Leatherman Wave in a belt pouch. I often use the Classic because it is just a little more convenient, and it works quite well. I do sharpen it from time to time.

I firmly believe that big knives are over rated - too many Rambo movies.

Only carrying an SAK classic is part of ultra-light hiking dogma.Carrying anything bigger then that gets you dismissed from the UL religion.

I,ve read that back packers use deodorant for more than smelling good.The stick type deodorants are good for reducing chaffing and blisters on feet.Just something I heard and read.

BOATMAN
John

Knee high nylons also reduce chafing and blisters, however don't do a darn thing for the way you smell.

Never understood the UL religion myself. So what they can hike 30 miles in a day? What do they see besides the trail.

Life's a journey, not a destination.

What really burns my @$$ is the author is recommending to knew hikers not to carry necessary gear because they can bum it from others on the trail. Bad enough he would consider this a viable and acceptable alternative, but now he is propagating the same line of thinking in others. Hopefully a bad accident when he was younger has left him unable to reproduce. Stupid makes me sick.

EDIT: Not directed at you JB, but the author of the article.

Dibs on his...deodorant?
Nevermind.

-Blast

Whenever I hear/read about the ULers, I think about hiker Colin Fletcher telling about the ones who trim the borders off their maps to save weight.

Some people are Darwin Award material all their lives.

Sue

This thread really does expose people’s ignorance. Tough but true.

Some of these UL hikers are professionals; they earn their living from it. And, most of them carry more kit than adventure racers. Most UL hikers have many hundreds if not thousands of miles of trail experience. They know their kit inside out and they have bags and bags of experience, much more than most people on here.

Most people that hang around survival based forums, if they ever go out any further from their local woods or an occasional night out often carry way to much kit and survival kit. This is often seen by some of the radicalise FAK’s that some people have.

We can learn a lot from these guys. They have mastered minimalist existents often with long periods of solitude. They have also learnt to deal with the minimum of comfort. And, they have the drive to push themselves to achieve their goal. All qualities someone in a survival situation needs.

Here I thought my teardrop trailer was ultra-light.

lol

Some people on the forum are backpackers some are not.
A BOB is not a backpack.

The goals are different.

Apart from maximum carry weight issues a BOB can't have too much in it.

I understand the UL mentality, and it has purpose, but not for everyone. Then again, cave men carried very very little and survived or we wouldn't be here.

The real question is one of probabilities as a FAK is only needed if there is a need for First Aid.

Risk = chance of something happening X the consequences.

The UL crowd is operating on the chance side of the equation.

The real world has both sides.

And some internet posters are prone to wild generalizations...

I suppose you might consider Ray Jardine a "professional" UL hiker - he is the only one that comes to mind. Jardine has written some influential books, although I suspect that most of his money comes from his invention of Friends, the first practicable camming devices for rock climbing. I looked up his gear list in one of his books. He has a first aid kit, flashlight with a spare battery and bulb (book was written pre-LEDs), stove with fuel, pocket knife (SAK Classic), emergency fire starter, and even a camera - no deodorant, though.

He advocates traveling at a moderate pace over a long day; descending to sheltered locations in the face of bad weather (definitely a viable strategy in mountainous country). His book is thoughtful, and stimulating, with some very good pointers for anyone interested in the outdoors.

Jardine has sparked the current UL wave , a variety of techniques also fostered by the development of strong light textiles like silnylon and spinnaker cloth.

UL hiking has a long and honorable history. In the 1950s, Gerry Cunningham sold gear that allowed five day, 35 pound trips. Even earlier than that, British mountaineers Eric Shipton and H W Tilman fostered lightweight expeditions without guides and porters, a practice that has continued into modern "alpine" strategies for climbing, as opposed to the "expedition" approach. UL has been around a long time.

The challenge, and joy, of outdoors travel, whether it is backpacking on a trail, an alpine excursion, perfecting a SAR pack, or even a good sea kayaking trip, is achieving the elegance of getting it just right - using everything you brought, bringing nothing unnecessary, and achieving your goals with an acceptable margin of safety and comfort. There is plenty of room for individual variation - bring deodorant if that is what turns you on. I know some very strong climbers who insist on pillows and teddy bears.

Over time, climbers, as well as other outdoor types, have developed what is often referred to as the "Ten Essentials," actually now around twelve or fourteen. There is lively debate about precisely what essentials belong on the list, but I have never seen one that didn't have some first aid gear, artificial light, fire starting gear, and usually some sort of cutting instrument. My outdoor experience, in a variety of venues and situations over the years, is that the "Ten Essentials" is a valid and useful concept. ETS provides masterful advice for anyone who wishes to follow this strategy. I feel uneasy about anyone who pares down the list excessively.

Given that the guy who wrote the original list that started this whole thread didn't specify what sort of weather or terrain he hiked in, I took his list with a huge radicalised grain of salt...

If he tried hiking in the mountains I see out my window, in perfect weather he'd survive, until the weather changed which it is prone to do. When that happened, he'd be crying for help or dying of exposure.

The fact that he's teaching others that his ideas are valid without a ton of "if's, ands and but's" is idiotic if not criminal. A professor of backpacking? Give me a f&#@*+n break.

I'll give him this, his list was very educational, I now know what sort of gear that some of his followers will be asking to "borrow" should I ever run across any of them.

I just want to correct one mistake I made above. I meant to say many UL ‘long distance’ hikers are professionals or at least semi pro.



Your experience is yours alone. I know many sports climbers, speed climbers, multi pitch climbers and big wall climbers that climb all over the world and most do not carry anything they don't need. And, the kit they do need is often as light as possible. There are plenty of cases of big wall climbers tied into a ledge for the night wearing their belay jacket, half length sleeping bag and a bothy bag. Drinking powder drinks and eating food bars. The only first aid kit they carry is the stuff they need to patch up their fingers. No survival kit, no fire lighting kit, no signalling kit, just good planning and informing someone where they are going.

Do long distance runners carry a means to light fires and knives, no they don’t. I was a semi pro cyclist and cycled hundreds of miles a week in training alone did I or any other cyclists carry that kit. No. Nor do wild swimmers, orienteers, horse riders or most outdoor sports persons. That sort of kit only gets packed when there is a need for it on the whole. Many of the places I have hiked and climbed around the world I could not have had a fire because there was just no fuel.

The only time I carry a full first aid kit is when I am leading a group. If I am out by myself or with friends, I carry a role of vet wrap, a wad of gauze pads and some tape. This is a lot more versatile than standard band aids and bandages. Many mountain leaders in this country and in Europe will carry a role of cellophane in their minimal first aid kit.

If you go out by yourself, a first aid kit, other than for treating very basics injuries, is useless to you if the injury is too bad, shelter is more important than first aid. If you can’t get yourself out you need to provide yourself with shelter to help maintain your core body temperature. To put it in another way, our first aid kit can not treat a broken leg. Hypothermia is likely to kill you a lot faster than a broken leg ever will, unless there are other complications such as an internal bleed which your first aid kit can’t help with. Shelter is the priority.

Even when you are out in a group, what can you expect to do? Stabilize the casualty and preserve life. That person has a broken leg, you send someone to get help. You need to provide the casualty with shelter to help protect them from hypothermia. Once that is done you can start to think about traction and splinting, traction might be appropriate but you don’t need a first aid kit to do that nor for splinting. There is no need to splint if you are going to get medical attention on seen because they are always going to want to replace your work with professional equipment.

Notice I have not mentioned medication. Personal medication is each person’s responsibility and is not part of first aid training unless you have done some advanced first aid or medic training. And don’t tell me you live in a desert so hypothermia is not a problem. In major trauma cases out in Afstan casualties are wrapped against hypothermia.

This is all in the context of this tread. I agree in certain areas and survival situations weight is not an issue. BOB and first aid kits can be as elaborate as you like providing you are competent to use the items contained in it.

I have more than 20 years experience of the outdoors and survival and my kit is proportionate to the trip I am doing. I agree that the novice just starting out should take more precautions in kit than the more experienced and I know that trouble can strike anyone but I also recognise that there is only so much I can do before laying up in a shelter is my last option.

I also agree that the title of the article is misleading and damn right dangerous. And if that is the kit list for newcomers to hiking, then he is being woefully incompetent but cant that be said for some very established well known primitive survival schools that have not looked after their clients welfare?

Pure survival, good posting. And you have a very interesting website.

Here's an interesting short blog post that tries to tread the balance of Being Prepared Not Equipped when going light. Essentially he is doing away with redundancy or overly engineered kit and ensuring he is aware of the surroundings/situations he is putting him self in.

I'm sure his advice won't be for everyone but for me it certainly puts a better slant on things than Mr Drury did.

I disagree with some of what Drury has on his website and would not want him leading me or my friends/family on any trip.

SOME are professionals, but very few, I suspect. Most are probably from the LSWWCGAW category {Let's See What We Can Get Away With).

How many ULs did you know before cell phones, SPOT and PLBs?

Sue

I knew many UL's before cell phones, Spot and PLB's.

In the UK much of our highland regions don't have mobile phone coverage. There are very few Spot's being used here and PLB's are only licensed to be used by sailors and pilots.

Communication Technology is not an argument for the increase in UL hikers. Material Technology has, as new lighter materials that provide advanced performance over older materials becomes increasingly available.

Modern synthetic materials work, this can be seen in mountain rescue statistics world wide that shown rescues of hypothermia cases are slowly dropping year on year.

I think there is actually some things that UL'ers do well and have applied those tips to my own methodology which I admit leans much more to being prepared than not, so I automatically disqualify a UL rating.

That being said most UL'ers are not whack jobs. They make their own gear which I really like in some regards and rely heavily on their own sense of ability on the trail. The hypocrisy is that they survive only through a highly organized delivery service of friends and business along the trail. Nothing wrong with this at all, but its a completely different category of trail user than the typical backpacker.

The vast majority of backpackers invest in better constructed, higher quality, (yes heavier) gear that lasts much longer than 1 season and prefer taste, comfort, a heavier fixed blade knife, to distance.

PureSurvival, I just noticed your location.

I'm across the pond in the Nation of No Responsibility.

Sue

ok to the suggester(backpackerlight),this list or loosely disorganized article however they want to call it.. knife seldom, flashlight seldom, hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you got to be kidding me...ok one thing to add to the list common sense seldom...............sorry not trying to be harsh but for bpl to put that out there is foolish.......

Sorry hikermor your not mission critical so you can look after yourself

My coment about the desert was not so much that they get cold. Desert is not defined by temperature but lack of precipitation. As you state Arizona has elevation which means cold. I have been cold at one time or other in none elevated deserts of Africa, Australia and the Middle East. My point is, even in hot weather, a casualty with major trauma can succumb to hypothermia through conduction to the ground. Major burn cases often succumb to hypothermia through convection because water is evaporating from the dressings.



I agree but reading many posts on this forum of peoples FAK's. It seems common that people make them way to elaborate. It amazes me how many people on the internet have more elaborate FAK's than my war fighting medic kit yet don't have any aid training at all.

I'll agree that there have been some pretty elaborate FAKs shown here on the forums, but I believe most of the larger ones were for BOBs, professional use, home use or for the office. Two that I can recall in the last couple of years were EMTs showing what they carried in case they ran across something when they were off duty.

In the case of BOBs people don't know when they'll be able to resupply, get medical attention from a professional or what family members or they themselves might need for an indeterminate amount of time. So, it's understandable that these FAKs are pretty large and detailed.

My BOB FAK is about 5 pounds. I take it when I go camping with friends because I've taken up the job. I put it together from the experiences of camping with the same 10 to 15 people for the last 20+ years. This year the only thing that was needed from the kit was Zanfel Poison Ivy Cream, 2 Anti-diarrheal pills, several ibuprofen, tweezers, baby powder and a bandaid. Other years we've needed burn cream, a SAM splint, Ace bandages, heat packs, cold compresses and more.

You're right that none of the things from my FAK we've used on these trips have made the difference between life and death. What they have made a difference in is fast comfort, halving the time to get one of us to the hospital or saving one of us from having to leave camp to go to town for supplies.

My hiking FAK is pretty small and has a few items to tide myself or the group over until we get back to camp or until we make it to professional help.

As far as I'm concerned people can take as much or as little as they feel is necessary, but I don't have to agree with their choices.

As for the Ultralight Hiker community, I can only comment on direct experiences I've had, try to make that clear and don't think these few examples represent the whole.