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#194749 - 02/01/10 12:01 AM Re: Signl mirrors [Re: PureSurvival]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Anytime I was looking to link up with a helicopter at a location other than a designated and marked helispot, it was routine to give a visual indication of my location. It is not easy, contrary to the impression one might get from TV and movies, to spot an individual out in the woods who is not actively indicating his/her presence. We used a signal mirror by day and an ARC strobe by night.

Don't forget a signal mirror has other uses - surely you continue to shave daily, even out in the woods. We must keep up appearances, right? wink
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#194750 - 02/01/10 12:02 AM Re: Signl mirrors [Re: PureSurvival]
SwampDonkey Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 1268
Loc: Northeastern Ontario, Canada
Good Thought PureSurvival.

Two nights ago the moon here was very bright with lots of reflection off the snow, I wonder if a person could signal with a mirror using moonlight? The moon is just coming up here now, if I am still awake at midnight I will give it a try. The moon is rising very yellow tonight, usually means windy tomorrow.

Mike

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#194758 - 02/01/10 12:55 AM Re: Signl mirrors [Re: SwampDonkey]
rafowell Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 261
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: SwampDonkey
Good Thought PureSurvival.
I wonder if a person could signal with a mirror using moonlight?
Mike


Yes, though the range is more limited than when using the sun, even after accounting for the much darker background. I've only tried it at very short range - about 100 yards. Trying this at longer ranges and videotaping the results is on my "to-do" list.

Per [1], moonlight was used operationally in Egypt ca. August 1881 using heliographs: "During this campaign it was used between &#1050;assassin and Mahsameh for signaling with the light of the moon at its full."([1], p. 282). I make the range about 5.3 miles, if I'm correctly identifying "&#1050;assassin and Mahsameh" with "Qassasin & Mahsama". I'm not sure what size mirrors were used - 5" diameter was the later British standard, but in the early days they used both larger and smaller mirrors.

[1] http://books.google.com/books?id=qmG1jUW-0E4C

Operations of the French Navy During the Recent War with Tunis
By Miers Fisher Wright, United States Office of Naval Intelligence
Translated by Miers Fisher Wright
Published by Govt. print off., 1885
page 282:
_________________________
A signal mirror should backup a radio distress signal, like a 406 MHz PLB (ACR PLB) (Ocean Signal PLB)

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#194779 - 02/01/10 04:48 AM Re: Signl mirrors [Re: rafowell]
SwampDonkey Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 1268
Loc: Northeastern Ontario, Canada
Yes, you can use a signal mirror by moonlight!

My teenage son and I just got back in the house, it is -20*c out with about 40cm of snow on the ground (clear and cold with lots of ground reflection). The moon is well up in the sky in the southeast and is almost full (greater than 95%), it is casting heavy shadows.

We used a 3"x5" glass 2 layer sighting mirror (labeled - Mirror, Emergency, Signaling, Mark 3, Type 2) that I have had for at least 20 years.

Trying to use the 2-hand technique was difficult as the mirror did not return a lot of light, but using the sighting hole/fireball method it was very effective, maybe even easier than in the daytime. The bright spot was easy to see in the centre of the mirror and simple to aim. We only had about a 30m cleared area to shoot the light signal but the flash was very bright at night and I am sure it would get someones attention at quite a distance.

It was very difficult to use the 2 hand technique because I could not track the location of the reflected beam, even when I knew I was bouncing it off a wall 30 metres away. I think this just has to do with the limited amount of light you are reflecting. A signal mirror that you can aim is much more functional at night.

Well you learn something everyday, I think my neighbours learned (again) that we do strange things at our house?

Mike

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#194784 - 02/01/10 05:43 AM Re: Signl mirrors [Re: SwampDonkey]
sybert777 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/15/09
Posts: 300
Loc: 62208
Swamp Donkey, do you happen to have another one of those MK-3 mirrors? I have been looking for one for 3 years! thay were only supplied to the military and are rated one of the best mirrors. 3x5 is a tad big to me, 3x4 is a good size to me. I doubt you will sell it to me since it is in your family for 20 years. Hold onto that, it is a great keepsake!!

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#194786 - 02/01/10 05:54 AM Re: Signl mirrors [Re: sybert777]
sybert777 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/15/09
Posts: 300
Loc: 62208
Another signaling device someone should try and report the results is a, "cheap magnetic flasher" you get around halloween. for night signaling it is plenty bright. and you can effortlessly attach it to your clothing.

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#194807 - 02/01/10 02:53 PM Re: Signl mirrors [Re: sybert777]
SwampDonkey Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 1268
Loc: Northeastern Ontario, Canada
Sorry sybert777, I only have 2 of these mirrors and I use them both. One is stored in my signaling kit (snowmobile/ATV) the other I use when doing my presentation on signaling techniques. The mirror I used last night (the presentation one) actually has a crack through the rear layer of glass but the front is intact. It does not seem to hurt the functioning of the mirror. The mirror was cracked when it was impacted on the rear bottom edge; I have seen a picture of a mirror like this that now has a plastic protected edge to help prevent damage like this (check out the one in Cody Lundin's book 98.6*).

I must now be an official "Old Guy" because I consider equipment only 20 years old as my "New Gear", time sure flies?

Later, Mike

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#195604 - 02/11/10 04:09 AM Re: Signl mirrors [Re: sybert777]
rafowell Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 261
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: sybert777
Swamp Donkey, do you happen to have another one of those MK-3 mirrors? I have been looking for one for 3 years! thay were only supplied to the military and are rated one of the best mirrors. 3x5 is a tad big to me, 3x4 is a good size to me. <snip>


Good news - the company (Howard Glass) that makes the military issue MIL-M-18371E glass signal mirrors with retroreflective aiming grids does sell to civilians through distributors. See Doug Ritter's article: http://www.equipped.org/phony_signal_mirrors.htm
to read more about this and find distributors (Doug gives links at the end of the article).

Bad news on the size, though. AFAIK (and I know a lot about this) the military issue MK-3 mirrors have only been made in two sizes: 3"x5" and 2"x3". Doug has Mil-Spec MIL-M-18371E linked to his article, and you can see in the preamble here:
http://www.equipped.org/pp/pic2038.htm#1
that 2"x3" and 3"x5" are the two sizes. I also have copies of versions B & D of this spec - version B had only the 3"x5" version. Of course, you could cut a 3"x5" down to 3"x4" if you were careful about it.
_________________________
A signal mirror should backup a radio distress signal, like a 406 MHz PLB (ACR PLB) (Ocean Signal PLB)

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