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#22433 - 12/08/03 10:23 PM Signl mirrors
Anonymous
Unregistered


I am all in favor of being prepared, but this one makes me scratch my head.
For all the good intentions of a survival/signal mirror and their capabilities, I recall an article (have to try and find it) that stated there are no documented cases of anyone being rescued as the result of someone signaling with a mirror.
Is anyone aware of one?

It does not mean you would not be the first.

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#22434 - 12/09/03 12:06 AM Re: Signl mirrors
Comanche7 Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/04/02
Posts: 436
Loc: Florida
Skater,

There are references in several places (Doug's review of signaling devices, on a couple of emergency signaling mirror websites and other places on the web) that state that there was one rather well known rescue of several folks on an icy / rocky elevation somewhere. It could be folklore, however, I recall reading several war diaries in high school where people were rescued via mirror flash. That said, I never felt the need to verify the veracity of the claims. My gut feeling is that if the mirrors weren't really worthwhile, that the military would not include them in their kits. I can personally vouch for the fact that pieces of glass & plastic can really reflect a lot of sunlight from my flying over water and watching the reflection on the horizon (30-50 miles away) turn into a boat that was reflecting and flashing sunlight from the spray shield as it cruised the ocean blue, and from cars lined up in traffic alongside the airport while on approach to landing. The bigger the reflector, the brighter (and more annoying the flash). I also feel that many pilots would take a second look at a flashing light from a location where it would not be expected from, particularily if it kept flashing after the aircraft had moved a substantial amount of distance that normally would have taken it away from a stationary nuisance flash. Please keep in mind that just because a plane is close or overhead, that the pilot and passengers may not see the flash due to being below the window line of the aircraft. Generally when a pilot flies, they do not normally look very closely below the aircraft, but rather more in the front for a distance ranging from a mile or so on landing to 15+ miles in level flight. Yes, we try to keep our head on a swivel and look around, but generally in front and to each side in front is where we look for aircraft traffic on a collision course. The exact scan area for each pilot will vary (sometimes to extremes) and is also dependent upon the type of aircraft being operated.

HTH in some small measure, I know that it did not directly answer your question. Perhaps it is time for a web search???

Regards,
Comanche7

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#22435 - 12/09/03 12:21 AM Re: Signl mirrors
Anonymous
Unregistered


As ususal, you bring up some very good points and observations, C7.
It did boggle my mind a bit when I read the article about, supposedly, no one being rescued as a result of using a signal mirror.
However, I can not dispute the fact that if the US Military feels there is a good reason to have one, it should make sense.
I do recall an episode of "Sky King" where somone used a mirror to signal him in his plane, The Songbird if I remember correctly.
Boy, am I dating myself.

Thanks for the feedback.

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#22436 - 12/09/03 01:09 AM Re: Signl mirrors
Comanche7 Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/04/02
Posts: 436
Loc: Florida
Ah yes...the Songbird and the Songbird 2 & neice Penney.

Hmmm...IIRC [and dating myself as well <img src="images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />]
A quick stroll down memory lane...

The original Songbird was a radial engined Cessna twin, AKA the Bamboo Bomber, a trainer plane for the military, many made it into civilian hands, eventually most of them were grounded as a result of the main wingspar (most of the aircraft structiure was wood of various types) having dryrot problems due to being inaccessible for maintenance without a total disassembly of the wing.

It was my great pleasure to actually see one at the Experimental Aircraft Assoc. "Sun-N-Fun" Flyin and weeklong airshow in Lakeland Fla. several times in recent years. (Along with a great many other really neat aircraft, both old and new, military and civilian. You really have to make it to an EAA airshow sometime. Bring a big brimmed hat, sunglasses, and really good walking shoes.)

The Songbird 2 was one of the earlier Cessna 310's with horizontally opposed engines.

I liked both aircraft then and now. Thanks for the kick in the memory button. <img src="images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Comanche7

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#22437 - 12/09/03 01:43 AM Re: Signl mirrors
Anonymous
Unregistered


You are an airplane buff!
He owned the Flying Crown Ranch, FWIW.
I think Penny and "Bob" had something going on the side.
Real triva question - What was the Sheriff's name

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#22438 - 12/09/03 02:04 AM Re: Signl mirrors
Comanche7 Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/04/02
Posts: 436
Loc: Florida
D'Oh! Just hit the end of my memory chain. I give, who was it? <img src="images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Guess I'm better on aircraft than people huh? LOL

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#22439 - 12/09/03 02:52 AM Re: Signl mirrors
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well, they always seemed to have the same radio frequency to operate on.
"Sky King calling Sheriff Hargrove."
Mitch Hargrove, played by Ewing Mitchell.

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#194691 - 01/31/10 04:30 AM Re: Signl mirrors [Re: Anonymous]
rafowell Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 261
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: Anonymous
I am all in favor of being prepared, but this one makes me scratch my head.
For all the good intentions of a survival/signal mirror and their capabilities, I recall an article (have to try and find it) that stated there are no documented cases of anyone being rescued as the result of someone signaling with a mirror.
Is anyone aware of one?

It does not mean you would not be the first.


Goodness, yes - I have many detailed documented cases of people being rescued as the result of someone signaling with a mirror. (I collect them, as it happens.)

Either you recall the article incorrectly or the author was arrogant in their ignorance. I suspect the former. Perhaps you were thinking of a quote like this one from the April 1996 issue of Backpacker magazine, page 120: "I can't remember anyone ever having been rescued using a mirror.
The sun and your skill have to be just right.", attributed to George Montopoli, a summer climbing ranger in Grand Teton National Park, Wyoming. (3rd column, halfway down, here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=gN4DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA120 ),
which is a much milder statement. (By the way, while skill is definitely required, a mirror with a retroreflective aimer makes it a lot easier than otherwise.)

There's a reason why emergency signal mirrors are required to be carried by US military pilots, US Coast Guard personnel, and on liferafts on oceangoing vessels worldwide.

Here are a few detailed recent cases:

August 2009: Two hikers in Colorado
http://www.denverpost.com/headlines/ci_13044496
April 2007: Arizona hiker (whose satellite phone died)
http://www.azcentral.com/community/scottsdale/articles/0419hiker0419-ON.html
(reported in ) 2007:
http://books.google.com/books?id=GiH84xi...aph&f=false
May 2005: Three boaters rescued.
http://www.sailingbreezes.com/Sailing_Breezes_Current/articles/June05/quickthinking.htm
May 1999: Five boaters rescued.
http://www.beachbrowser.com/Archives/Local-News/June-99/AC-130H-crew-assists-stranded-boaters.htm


For larger statistics:

In the post-war analysis of military survival in
the Pacific, "Airmen Against the Sea - An Analysis of
Sea Survival Experiences", by George Albert Llano,
Research and Editorial Specialist, Arctic, Desert,
Tropic Information Center, Maxwell Air Force Base,
Alabama:

Table 4 on page 42

gives "Mirror Flashes" as the means by which rescuers
spotted survivors in 20 out of 136 incidents recorded by
the 13th Emergency Group for one quarter of 1944.

http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.31822011730850;q1=mirror%20dumbo;start=1;size=100;page=root;view=image;seq=54;num=42

Given that mirrors were the means of spotting survivors
in 20 cases for a single rescue group in a single quarter-year
in World War II, you can bet there were a lot more.

Here's an extremely well documented case: the rescue of
Radioman Tweed from Guam on July 10, 1944.

The Smithsonian sent me the transcript from when Tweed went on CBS radio ca. 2:20 PM EST on August 26, 1944 and said: "if it were not for an ordinary mirror, just like women carry in their pocket books, I would not be here at all."

In Tweed's book, "Robinson Crusoe, USN", on page 239,
he describes how he successfully signaled the American destroyer with a 3 inch mirror after he had tried (page 234) for a week, 6 to seven times a day, for twenty minutes at
a time, to get their attention with signal flags.

And if anyone doubt's Tweed's account, here's the
U.S. Navy's description from
http://www.history.navy.mil/danfs/m7/mccall-ii.htm

"They then steamed back to the Marianas where McCall, with Gridley, took up patrol off Guam, 10 July. At 1820 on the 10th, McCall’s crew observed a heliograph [signal mirror - RAF] from a cliff south of Uruno Point. Identifying the operator as friendly, a motor whaleboat, manned by a volunteer landing party, was dispatched to effect the rescue of the message sender. In spite of being within range of 6&#8209;inch coastal batteries, the rescue was accomplished and G. R. Tweed, RM1c, USN, having been on Guam since 1939 and in hiding since the Japanese occupation, was brought on board."

That account is also given here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=r1eYvln...;q=&f=false

In summary, per this US Coast Guard Auxiliary public service article:
http://www.auxguidanceskills.info/press/PFDequip.html

"... the first item we recommend you attaching to your PFD is a signal mirror. Either purchase a PFD with a pocket, or sew a pocket on, and place the mirror in your pocket. Make sure you tie the lanyard that attaches to mirror to another part of your PFD. This way, if you take out your mirror to use, and drop it, you won’t loose it!"








Edited by rafowell (01/31/10 07:20 PM)
_________________________
A signal mirror should backup a radio distress signal, like a 406 MHz PLB (ACR PLB) (Ocean Signal PLB)

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#194733 - 01/31/10 08:55 PM Re: Signl mirrors [Re: rafowell]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
I'd like to toss in a bit of blasphemy here: I don't carry a signal mirror. I'm not oposed to carrying them, it's just a reflection of what I deem most important in MY situation and my climate.

Foul weather plays a large part in a lot of the troubles I try to take precautions against. Of course I could be in trouble in nice weather, but the situation will be A LOT easier to resolve then, even without a mirror.

I may actually get a mirror and toss it in my kit, just for good measures. But living where I live I don't judge it as so crucial as say, someone in Arizona.

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#194738 - 01/31/10 10:01 PM Re: Signl mirrors [Re: MostlyHarmless]
PureSurvival Offline
Member

Registered: 02/21/09
Posts: 149
Loc: UK
LOL @ there are no documented cases of anyone being rescued as the result of someone signaling with a mirror.

There are hundreds and hundreds of documented cases of signal mirrors being used successfully throughout history.

There are even recorded cases of signal mirrors being used at night with success. You just have to look at the conflict in North Africa during WW2 for evidence of that.


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