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#194460 - 01/28/10 05:40 PM Apple iPad
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078

Apple finally introduce the new iPad. The new firewall technology sounds interesting.


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#194461 - 01/28/10 06:17 PM Re: Apple iPad [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Alex Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 1034
Loc: -
laugh
Seriously, IMHO, iPad is a total failure. Just oversized iPhone with some drawbacks: no cameras (so no pics or video chatting), no multitasking (so, for instance, no listening to Pandora while reading a book), no built-in USB connection or memory-card slot (adapters available for an extra charge), and no support for Flash, making a lot of streaming video unavailable...


Edited by Alex (01/28/10 07:02 PM)

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#194468 - 01/28/10 07:43 PM Re: Apple iPad [Re: Alex]
Nicodemus Offline
Paranoid?
Veteran

Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 1341
Loc: Virginia, US
The first version of the iPhone was missing a lot as well, but much of it came in later versions. The iPad will follow suit.

The Flash thing bugs me. Adobe now has a Flash export function to convert for the ApStore so they may end up doing a work around for other things as well. I'd prefer that Apple just support Flash, but oh well.

As for a USB, it'll be like the iPod with it's proprietary cord to USB.

Funny vid, Am.


Edited by Nicodemus (01/28/10 08:06 PM)
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#194470 - 01/28/10 08:19 PM Re: Apple iPad [Re: Nicodemus]
AndrewC Offline
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Registered: 12/27/09
Posts: 59
Loc: Boise, ID
It's almost like a real tablet PC, but without a keyboard. And a weak processor, no multitasking, fewer applications, a smaller hard drive, fewer accessories, a less durable design, no support for flash, a smaller display, lower resolution, and a non-replacable battery.

But it does have an Apple logo on it - I'm sure it will sell well.

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#194474 - 01/28/10 08:41 PM Re: Apple iPad [Re: AndrewC]
7point82 Offline
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Registered: 11/24/05
Posts: 478
Loc: Orange Beach, AL
No USB is IMO just retarded. One lousy USB port would have added a LOT of versatility and functionality.

Unless you're in the market for an ebook reader the iPad just strikes me as a fashionable, less-capable netbook.

I'm with Andrew though; slap that logo on it and it should sell relatively well.
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#194480 - 01/28/10 09:51 PM Re: Apple iPad [Re: AndrewC]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
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Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:
And a weak processor, no multitasking, fewer applications, a smaller hard drive, fewer accessories, a less durable design, no support for flash, a smaller display, lower resolution, and a non-replacable battery.


I don't think that the iPad could be described as having a weak processor. The Apple A4 chip compares very favorably with the Intel Atom processor running at less than 1/3 the clock speed.

The ARM based Apple A4 processor does have the ability for Multitasking, it just hasn't been implemented in the iPad.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/arm-demos-the-cortex-a9s-web-browsing-skills-on-video/

The IPad does have a smaller hard drive but this is all SSD technology again designed to reduce power consumption.

The smaller LED backlight LCD display again has been chosen for power saving requirements. Higher resolution larger format lower power OLED displays are apparently in the pipeline. We may soon see slightly larger 1080HD resolution capable OLED displays for the next generation iPad.

The non replaceable battery and connectivity issues have always been an Apple annoyance. frown

I may buy one when the iPad retails for around $250 and has a 1080 HD OLED display, can multitask, can take an SDHC card, has a USB port, has a digital audio out, can play FLASH movies and can recharge itself if left on a window sill for a few hours.

Hopefully all the earlier Apple iPad adopters (yes they can serve a purpose) can bring the price down in the future for future iPad devices and someone has the good sense to change the 'iPad' name to something else.









Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (01/28/10 09:52 PM)

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#194492 - 01/29/10 12:14 AM Re: Apple iPad [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
JohnN Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 966
Loc: Seattle, WA
I have an iPod Touch, and I'll admit it is the first "PDA" type device I've had (and I've tried a number of them) that is usable. Basically I carry books (Kindle application), reference material and entertainment, all in my pocket.

The problem I see with the iPad is the size. It is way too big to be a real portable device. Great for sitting on your couch "reading the paper" or browsing the web, but it is too big to slip it in your book bag or coat pocket like you might a paperback novel.

It seems to me until they produce this type of device following the form factor of a paperback (aprox 8" diag for the entire device), they are really limiting themselves to a very specific market.

Build one with a 7" screen, about 8" total with the same features as the iPad and I'd probably buy one.

-john


Edited by JohnN (01/29/10 12:15 AM)

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#194495 - 01/29/10 12:30 AM Re: Apple iPad [Re: JohnN]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
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Registered: 08/03/07
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Quote:
It seems to me until they produce this type of device following the form factor of a paperback (aprox 8" diag for the entire device), they are really limiting themselves to a very specific market.

Build one with a 7" screen, about 8" total with the same features as the iPad and I'd probably buy one.


Something like the Archos 9 PC tablet.

http://www.archos.com/products/nb/archos_9/index.html?country=us&lang=en

Why on earth does Apple get all the international media hype for what has basically been done before at the same price point with what is actually less capability and is available now? Weird.


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#194496 - 01/29/10 12:31 AM Re: Apple iPad [Re: JohnN]
Eugene Offline
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Registered: 12/26/02
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If I'm going to get something like that I'd wait until there is something running Android or Linux so its not limited to what Apple says you can do.

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#194499 - 01/29/10 01:20 AM Re: Apple iPad [Re: Eugene]
ki4buc Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/10/03
Posts: 710
Loc: Augusta, GA
I saw a rumor online that said Google might come out with a tablet soon too. Makes me wonder, was this done to do something good for the stock (i.e. gotta have something every so many quarters,half-year, year, etc)? Or, maybe the Google one is coming out soon and they wanted to beat them to the punch?

I have to agree with Alex, and that I was expecting a "mobile computing platform", something sharing more similarities with the iMac, than the iPhone. Like 7point82 said, a USB would be better and make it non-phone like! Sometimes business seems to always release something without the bells and whistles that will get stuff going, instead "gotta have something so we can pay the bills". Yeah, debt is bad, but if this was more in the middle of an iPhone/iPod Touch and an iMac, it would have gotten a better reception and possibly not have the stock price drop!

Maybe Apple will shrink it so it's the size of a PADD from ST:TNG. That is probably the right size for everyone! Also, if they called it iPADD, the iTampon jokes probably won't have been so prevalent.

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#194501 - 01/29/10 01:39 AM Re: Apple iPad [Re: ki4buc]
haertig Offline
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Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
I just have to wonder ... was this designed to solve some problem (what?) or just to make money for Apple? It sits right in between two useful things - a laptop and a phone - but I don't see any practical use for it. It's somewhat like eraseable ink pens - the great majority of people opt for either a pencil or a regular pen instead. Or both. But the bottom line is that the "middle" thing - the eraseable pen - is not used by all that many folks. I see this iPad as a similar "why would I need that?" type of thing.

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#194505 - 01/29/10 02:17 AM Re: Apple iPad [Re: haertig]
MDinana Offline
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Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2208
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
Originally Posted By: haertig
I just have to wonder ... was this designed to solve some problem (what?) or just to make money for Apple? It sits right in between two useful things - a laptop and a phone - but I don't see any practical use for it. It's somewhat like eraseable ink pens - the great majority of people opt for either a pencil or a regular pen instead. Or both. But the bottom line is that the "middle" thing - the eraseable pen - is not used by all that many folks. I see this iPad as a similar "why would I need that?" type of thing.

I totally agree.

If I wanted an iPod that was 3 times bigger, this would be great.

But seriously? 64GB? That's SO 2001. And no keyboard? Camera? Battery? Wow. Glad I'm sticking with my PC laptop, even if Windows (and the MS Office 2007) has its flaws. Though I gotta say the Netbooks are a great convenient size. A Mac iPad similar to that could be amazing.

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#194507 - 01/29/10 02:26 AM Re: Apple iPad [Re: haertig]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
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Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:
I just have to wonder ... was this designed to solve some problem


Ahem, when was the iPhone ever designed to solve a problem. Apple needs to stick a LASER projector synced to wireless LCD shutter glasses into the iPad along with a theremin attachment. Now that would be cool.


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#194512 - 01/29/10 03:50 AM Re: Apple iPad [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Eric Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/09/06
Posts: 323
Loc: Iowa
The iPad is not a laptop (netbook or otherwise) and it is not a PDA. I'm not entirely sure what the target market is (or what it will turn out to be) but heck, I never figured the iPod would take off (or that I'd own one either). It won't replace my laptop but it would be great to have at work or in a class setting, where a laptop can be a bit awkward.

I can think of one really great use for this thing though. My son currently uses an iPod touch for some augmented communications stuff. The iPad would be much better due to its larger size and longer life. The alternative is a custom piece of kit costing about $4,000 and weighing about 8 lbs which is a bit much for an eight year old with motor skills issues to contend with. My guess is my wife will be buying one of these for our boy in 6 months or less. smile

Specifications don't make something good or usable. Lots of stuff has awesome spec's but turns out horrible in real world use.

-Eric

_________________________
You are never beaten until you admit it. - - General George S. Patton


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#194514 - 01/29/10 04:13 AM Re: Apple iPad [Re: AndrewC]
Eric Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/09/06
Posts: 323
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: AndrewC
It's almost like a real tablet PC, but without a keyboard. And a weak processor, no multitasking, fewer applications, a smaller hard drive, fewer accessories, a less durable design, no support for flash, a smaller display, lower resolution, and a non-replacable battery.


Picking a few nits.

The A4 is at least comparable to other processors in this class of device (including netbooks).

The OS does support multi-tasking, I can listen to music while doing all sorts of stuff and mail is retrieved in the background also. Apple has chosen not to allow non-native apps to use this capability. Tough call, it keeps the app in the foreground much more responsive, limits problems caused by poor/lazy programming, works well with the user interface design/philosophy but will get complaints from "techies" who want multi-tasking.

Similar situation with Flash. Flash is a proprietary solution with a horrible reputation, it chews through more CPU cycles for a lame animated add than I need to run a full up airplane simulation with hi-res visuals. It is annoying to miss out on some of the useful content that uses Flash but I don't miss the lame adds that seem to have sprung up on every other website. Personally I think Apple should have considered some sort of opt in for Flash but they probably didn't want deal with the problems that come with it.

The less durable design thing is interesting also. The iPad has very few moving parts compared to a netbook (or Kindle), and very few user accessible bits so I would actually expect it to have a very high Mean Time Between Failures (MTBF) compared to those devices. If you drop it, it will probably break, but so will a netbook etc.

So much for debating based on the specifications. The only real test is a field trial. I'll withhold judgement until after apple introduces the next generation unit smile and I can get to play with one for a while.

- Eric
_________________________
You are never beaten until you admit it. - - General George S. Patton


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#194541 - 01/29/10 02:14 PM Re: Apple iPad [Re: Eric]
ki4buc Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/10/03
Posts: 710
Loc: Augusta, GA
Computers are now so pervasive that the "art of programming" (generic, yes, I realize there are big differences between a computer scientist, software developer, software engineer, and a programmer ) has to be abstracted so that people can write programs. They release "toolkits" which they like to call "APIs", which they technically are, but they're not the powerful "APIs of old".

I do not own an iPhone, but I do not understand why there are 10,000 applications for it. With a 70% share of profits and the lack of ability for anyone to preview my app, I can make some money for little time investment! Perhaps they need a "Spec" summary, with video demo?

I'm waiting for true object oriented design that uses a "drag-and-drop" flowchart or 3D simulation look to it. Maybe that ALICE program from the late Randy Pausch does that.. .hmm...

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#194580 - 01/29/10 10:28 PM Re: Apple iPad [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2998
Originally Posted By: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor
Quote:
I just have to wonder ... was this designed to solve some problem


Ahem, when was the iPhone ever designed to solve a problem. Apple needs to stick a LASER projector synced to wireless LCD shutter glasses into the iPad along with a theremin attachment. Now that would be cool.



It actually was. The smartphone market was well established but mostly business oriented. The iphone took smartphones to the consumer market by making it geared more toward multimedia. Despite Apple's claim it wasn't innovative at all, phones had been out for a few years already which could do everything the iphone did but they just weren't marketed that way so not many people bought them other than corporate types so they could have their e-mail on the go. I had a touchscreen in 1999, was playing mp3's through a cassette adapter, etc,.

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#194585 - 01/29/10 11:39 PM Re: Apple iPad [Re: Eugene]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
As I see it the I-pad is not competition or replacement for PC, laptop or I-phone. While it resembles the expected computer tablet it isn't designed to fill that niche. It is aimed at the various readers like Kindle. To this they add a few I-phone like applications.

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#194607 - 01/30/10 05:47 AM Re: Apple iPad [Re: Art_in_FL]
AndrewC Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/27/09
Posts: 59
Loc: Boise, ID
If it's meant to be an e-Book reader, the price needs to come down - a lot!

$500 buys a lot of paperbacks.

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#194610 - 01/30/10 06:12 AM Re: Apple iPad [Re: AndrewC]
Eric Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/09/06
Posts: 323
Loc: Iowa
Assuming $5.99 per paperback that would be about 83 books. I have already found around 250 free ebooks (that I would actually like to own and read) from various sources so that would cost me just under $1500 to own all of those in paper form. Sounds like a bargain to me, even for the one with 3G and 64Gig of memory. A whole lot easier to carry also.

-Eric
_________________________
You are never beaten until you admit it. - - General George S. Patton


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#194611 - 01/30/10 11:31 AM Re: Apple iPad [Re: haertig]
Brangdon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1204
Loc: Nottingham, UK
Originally Posted By: haertig
I just have to wonder ... was this designed to solve some problem (what?) or just to make money for Apple? It sits right in between two useful things - a laptop and a phone - but I don't see any practical use for it.
It's an information appliance, a device for consuming content, aimed at people who don't really need to author new content and who don't need or want "a computer". Think of it as a portable TV - TV in the sense of a universal display device. eBooks, videos, maps, web-surfing, games, You-Tube, photos, that kind of thing. It runs iPhone apps so it's really very versatile.

It's simplicity is part of its virtue. Not having multi-tasking is a feature, not a bug, for the intended market. Likewise many of the other restrictions. Some of the other restrictions are due to it being version 1; like the early iPhones were restricted, and it's taken a few iterations to get to the power it has today.

Even today it delivers a compelling user experience. A lot of the anti-Apple crowd underestimate the importance of that kind of design. It's not just cosmetic.

It's more like an iPhone than a netbook. From that perspective, the problem it solves is the iPhone's tiny screen. Until we get fold-out screens, any pocket device will be too small for really comfortable browser, reading, video-watching etc. It's not for everyone, and if you use a keyboard a lot then a netbook will be fine for you. However, there are a lot of people who don't need a netbook but do want a better screen than a smart phone.

Back in the '70s we thought by now we'd all be living on the moon and have personal jet-packs. We also thought we'd have tablets like the iPad. Apple are building (or aiming to build) the kind of information appliance you see casually used in SF shows like Avatar or Star Trek.
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#194619 - 01/30/10 01:24 PM Re: Apple iPad [Re: Art_in_FL]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2998
Originally Posted By: Art_in_FL
As I see it the I-pad is not competition or replacement for PC, laptop or I-phone. While it resembles the expected computer tablet it isn't designed to fill that niche. It is aimed at the various readers like Kindle. To this they add a few I-phone like applications.


The smartphone, pc, laptop, netbook markets are all mature and saturated so the only way they could sell a new product is to invent a new market.
Its pretty wasteful, you have a device that can't replace any others so you have one more device to buy every few years, keep charged, etc. My netbook replaced a laptop so it was a good buy, my laptop replaced a desktop so it was a good deal too. With this its just another mouth to feed.

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#194654 - 01/30/10 08:36 PM Re: Apple iPad [Re: Eugene]
jshannon Offline
Addict

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 647
Loc: North Texas
Online applications like google documents has also helped changed the need to have authoring software on your hard drive.

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#194670 - 01/31/10 12:29 AM Re: Apple iPad [Re: Eugene]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
Originally Posted By: Eugene
The smartphone, pc, laptop, netbook markets are all mature and saturated so the only way they could sell a new product is to invent a new market.
Its pretty wasteful, you have a device that can't replace any others so you have one more device to buy every few years, keep charged, etc. My netbook replaced a laptop so it was a good buy, my laptop replaced a desktop so it was a good deal too. With this its just another mouth to feed.


I'm not saying your wrong. What you say makes a lot of sense.

I really don't have a dog in the fight. I'm not a heavy tech/media/messaging user. As of a couple years ago I didn't have a cell phone and still use a cell phone only as a phone. I have never even sent a IM and check the e-mail once a month or so. I have friends that seemingly IM every thirty seconds, are always on the phone, and are never more than a foot or two away from some sort of computer/messaging/media input.

But a whole lot of people love, desire, the benefits of computers but want to avoid interacting with the PC.

http://immlass.livejournal.com/678199.html


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#194716 - 01/31/10 04:57 PM Re: Apple iPad [Re: AndrewC]
widget Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 550
Why pay $500-850 for a device with such limited capabilities? I have a netbook that will do nearly anything a PC can do and it was $279. It has things like USB, a keyboard, a faster processor, 2GB of RAM and it will run common applications like Word without limitations.

I think the iPad should have been named the Newton II after Apple's earlier failed tablet device. IPad=DuD.
_________________________
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#194725 - 01/31/10 07:18 PM Re: Apple iPad [Re: widget]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2998
It might be different if they had put the full OSX on it, limiting it to being an overgrown ipod. I never saw any value in an ipod anyway since everything else can do all the same functions, including pdas/phones. Doesn't make much sense to carry a devices dedicated to music when it doesn't do anything better than any phone that plays music either. Its more about the status symbol now, the people who lust after apple products seem to be the ones that fall for the beanie babies or the latest ifad.

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#194727 - 01/31/10 07:39 PM Re: Apple iPad [Re: Art_in_FL]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:
But a whole lot of people love, desire, the benefits of computers but want to avoid interacting with the PC.


There just has to be an Apple iTunes/iPad App that just gives you a flashing DOS or UNIX command prompt even if you reboot the device after first running the App. If there isn't then I think i'll write one. wink And the only way to get out of the App would be to type c:\>del *.*

Oh I forgot - no keyboard. What a shame. grin






Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (01/31/10 07:41 PM)

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#194759 - 02/01/10 01:04 AM Re: Apple iPad [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2998
You won't find that kind of app from apples store, would have to root it to get a real command prompt. I remember around y2k getting the serial adapter for my windows ce 2.1 and using it to setup cisco routers using a simple terminal program.

The unfortunate thing about apple's products is they set the bar of the industry so newer releases of other products loose features because the apple's products don't have those features. Windows CE/Windows mobile lost a lot of the actual pim features over the years and it seems the newer palm doesn't have near the abilities as some of the old. Thats why I've switched over to open source because you at least have some hope of getting missing features implemented.

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