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#189099 - 11/24/09 03:51 PM Re: Four Days in the Everglades [Re: NightHiker]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Great points, especially #6 - cross reference to the current thread on the lost hiker in the Gila Wilderness, where map reading skills were a part of the problem.

People seem to think that GPS supplants map and compass; useful as it is, it supplements M&C. If you can't interpret a paper map, how can you interpret one displayed on a screen? - that will disappear when the batteries expire? - that can't receive a strong signal? etc.
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#189352 - 11/28/09 05:12 AM Re: Four Days in the Everglades [Re: hikermor]
TAB Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/20/09
Posts: 27
Loc: The Redwood Forest
I don't know much about the Everglades, but it seems to me that a map might not be of much use since it is flatland. No landmarks = map useless. The compass is therefore also basically useless. The compass can only do a better job than the sun if the sun is obscured by clouds and the person is totally lost. Even then, the sun always sets in the west. If I was going to move, it would only be during daylight hours, and only in a direction I was certain would bring me to a road relatively soon. I think GPS would be better than a map in the Everglades if I didn't know where on the map I was, but I have never used a GPS so I don't know. I assume they can pinpoint current location in relation to surroundings to show roads, etc.
Swimming with gators? Been there done that. If I was very inexperienced, like our hero apparently was, I would make a camp on some dry land and cook up some catfish and wait for rescue beside my signal fire.

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#189355 - 11/28/09 06:48 AM Re: Four Days in the Everglades [Re: TAB]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
Research that could have been done includes Mr. Tillery's book on surviving in the wilds of Florida:

http://www.bookmasters.com/marktplc/01412.htm#summary

Which includes the passage:

"The prairies, pinelands, and cypress on the flounder-flat terrain have a way of looking monotonously similar. Without constant and vigilant regard for cardinal directions, it’s ridiculously easy to get lost in here. A backcountry traveler might wander only a few hundred yards from a well-equipped campsite, get turned around, and not be able to find it again. Even though shelter and supplies of water and food are only a short distance away, the hapless traveler is effectively separated from them. In some instances, he may have to fend for himself for days with only the clothing and provisions he has on his person. “

http://www.bookmasters.com/marktplc/rr01412.htm#excerpt

Location specific survival and navigation tips are included.

Still. this is an example of a day hunt gone wrong and a hunter apparently not well-prepared to survive mentally or with gear.

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#189358 - 11/28/09 08:21 AM Re: Four Days in the Everglades [Re: dweste]
Leigh_Ratcliffe Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: United Kingdom.
1) Compass is bust? That's a classic. Doesn't generally happen. You should always carry two compasses. So you can compare one to the other.

2) 'gator's are an ambush predator so if you can't go inland go up. 'Gator can come their own lenth out of the water from a standing start so you need to be at least 9'/3m above water or ground level.
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#189360 - 11/28/09 09:18 AM Re: Four Days in the Everglades [Re: Leigh_Ratcliffe]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2208
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
Originally Posted By: Leigh_Ratcliffe
1) Compass is bust? That's a classic. Doesn't generally happen. You should always carry two compasses. So you can compare one to the other.

2) 'gator's are an ambush predator so if you can't go inland go up. 'Gator can come their own lenth out of the water from a standing start so you need to be at least 9'/3m above water or ground level.


Don't forget, they can actually outrun a human for short periods. That being said, apparently they can't "corner" well. If chased, zig-zag like your life depends on it - cuz it might.

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#189364 - 11/28/09 12:19 PM Re: Four Days in the Everglades [Re: MDinana]
celler Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/25/03
Posts: 410
Loc: Jupiter, FL
I would agree that a map is not very helpful in Big Cypress. The terrain is quite flat and there are very few discernible landmarks (small oil rigs here and there, not very tall). The place is covered in muck and palmetto thickets. It all looks alike. We kept out of trouble using the main east-west road into the place as our starting point. We would always be careful to hike in keeping a southerly direction frequently checking the compass. Then it was a relatively simple matter to head back north to encounter the road again. We would always come back out 200-300 yards east or west of the truck. Having a plan goes a long way.

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#189365 - 11/28/09 12:51 PM Re: Four Days in the Everglades [Re: Leigh_Ratcliffe]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Originally Posted By: Leigh_Ratcliffe
1) Compass is bust? That's a classic. Doesn't generally happen. You should always carry two compasses. So you can compare one to the other.. . .
If one is wrong, which one is right? Compare your compass(es) to a makeshift sundial.
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Okay, what’s your point??

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#189366 - 11/28/09 12:56 PM Re: Four Days in the Everglades [Re: Russ]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
"Maps of the BURNS LAKE and MONROE STATION, NE quadrangle are not just regular topographic maps, but orthophoto maps, color-enhanced photographic images of the terrain. Those accustomed to regular topo maps with lots of contour lines may be unnerved the first time they see an orthophoto map of Big Cypress.

But once you learn how to read an orthophoto map, it can be mighty useful. It can help you distinguish areas of cypress trees (depicted in light blue), prairies (depicted in light brown), and pinelands (depicted in green). This distinction is important because cypress trees mean water and flooded ground, prairies are soggy, grassy open areas usually easy to traverse, and pinelands are places of relatively high ground, but often cluttered with thick clumps of saw palmettos, which are hard to walk through. (Rattlesnakes like to take refuge in palmettos, so it's not a good idea to tromp through them with reckless abandon.) Big Cypress National Preserve, like a lot of Florida, is flat with no prominent terrain contours such as hills or valleys. But plant life can help you locate your position on the terrain. Use the great, grassy prairies, the cypress domes and strands, and the pinelands (all depicted on the orthophoto maps) to figure out where you are. “

http://www.floridaadventuring.com/big-cypress-national-preserve.html


Local knowledge, local maps: maybe pricey. Being prepared and equipped: priceless?


Edited by dweste (11/28/09 01:42 PM)

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#189371 - 11/28/09 02:26 PM Re: Four Days in the Everglades [Re: dweste]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
A creature of the western mountains and deserts, I once took a brief day trip in Florida swampland. It was a curious inversion - water, water, everywhere, but not a drop to drink - and dry land was scarce. Blew me away.

Change environments and school is once again in session.
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#189382 - 11/28/09 06:13 PM Re: Four Days in the Everglades [Re: hikermor]
Leigh_Ratcliffe Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: United Kingdom.
This is serious problem, life threatening problem that is somewhat more critical than 'gator or snake. They at least can be eaten. Depending on where you are your options are either strain then boil (if fire wood is availible) or strain then chemical purification. Expect to have to boil for longer or have to use twice to three times (cold very dirty water) as many tablets.


One other point (pun not intentional :)): It's always preferable to keep preditors beyond arms reach. So if materials are available, make yourself a spear or a bow. Something sharp and pointy in the face is the best way (other than shooting) to discourage Critters that have you on their lunch menu.

It's always baffled me when, on programs like survivorman, one is faced with bear country why Les doesn't manufacture a spear or pick up a few rocks first.
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