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#194047 - 01/21/10 02:32 AM Re: Long term medical supplies - your thoughts [Re: AndrewC]
epirider Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/03/05
Posts: 232
Loc: Wyoming, USA
I was actually trying to reinforce the fact that there is no substitute for knowledge. Unless you have a hospital with all the supplies, staff and the ability – there is no way to plan for every contingency. However if you have a more then basic knowledge and are able to adapt and improvise for various situations, the odds of surviving are dramatically increased. Homeopathic may not have proven much better then a placebo – but doing something has been proven much more effective then doing nothing. If a person is dying and a prayer is said and that person believes that it will make them better, then by its very nature it was better then not saying a prayer.

I have had the opportunity to be an EMT and an RN in very rural America. Am I an expert? No – not even close. But I would bet that most of the experts would agree that any and all knowledge accumulated would probably be of more benefit the all of the stock piles of supplies and not know what to do with it.

In this scenario, I would have to say the intention was very good, but was destined to fail when following up with or in unison with further learning then just the basics of first aid and CPR.

I am not trying to be a nay sayer or act like an elitist but before I added my comment about casting material, I should have stopped at learn more… and for that I apologize.
_________________________
A government big enough to give you everything you want,
is strong enough to take everything you have.
Thomas Jefferson

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#194048 - 01/21/10 02:36 AM Re: Long term medical supplies - your thoughts [Re: Susan]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2208
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
Originally Posted By: Susan
I agree with Ironraven, you want more of the stuff that everyone can use. How many bandaids do you go through per day with a little cut while you're working in the yard or keep getting your hands wet? LOTS, if you're anything like me.

Yes, antibiotics aren't one-kind-for-everything. If you want to have something that is general-purpose and has a long shelf live under most conditions, talk to your doctor and explain what you're trying to do. Emphasize that this is for a Haiti-like situation, you're not just trying to self-medicate.

Sue


IIRC, the OP IS a doctor...

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#194115 - 01/22/10 02:19 AM Re: Long term medical supplies - your thoughts [Re: hikermor]
marduk Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/04
Posts: 160
Loc: Mid-Missouri
At this point this is just a mental exercise.
Actually advanced training was part of the discussion.

Avg lifetime incidence of appendicitis is ~7% (male 8.6%, female 6.7%) peak incidence ages 10- 30.
Annual risk ~ 1:440 (0.25%).

Worst case scenerio: no outside consult available.



_________________________
"Sometimes, it's better to be lucky than skillfull"


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#194117 - 01/22/10 02:24 AM Re: Long term medical supplies - your thoughts [Re: Mark_F]
marduk Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/04
Posts: 160
Loc: Mid-Missouri
Within our circle of friends are several nurses, APNs, and Docs (including surgeons & ER). Who shows up depends on how rent the fabric of society is.
_________________________
"Sometimes, it's better to be lucky than skillfull"


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#194119 - 01/22/10 02:48 AM Re: Long term medical supplies - your thoughts [Re: MDinana]
marduk Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/04
Posts: 160
Loc: Mid-Missouri
If you have the staples, have the staple remover.: added

Maybe add clindamycin? You know sometimes they double dose with metronidazole, or if docs are worried about toxin production. : good thought, metronidazole for use with fluoroquinolone for abd catstrophe: appendicitis, PID, diverticulitis, etc - clinda would extend coverage. ABX are a poor second choice, but if surgery not available,may be best 2nd choice.

Tape, dressings, etc quantity would be in boxes, if not cases.

elastic roller bandage = ACE wraps

Doculax? : Pysillium products & glycerine supp. should be enough?

Albuterol MDI?
: added

WHO oral rehydration salts? Missouri doesn't exactly have nice dry summer-time temps.
: Have you tasted most of the rehydration salts? YUCK. Would use 1/2 strength Gatorade - nearly equivalent & much better taste. Missuri weather: hot & humid summers, cold, wet winters (below 0 degrees F last week) You move to Missouri for the weather only if you really like the change of the seasons. smirk

Interesting thought on the Traction splint. You plan on leaving a person in that for 6-12 weeks?: Suboptimal, but absent a surgical option it may be the only option.

OB kit: Having done deliveries in the field, in a car in the ER parking lot, and in the hospital, all you really need are gloves, clean sheets, a clean shoelace, & something to cut the cord. Under the postulated circumstances maternal obesity would likely not be an issue & likely small birth wt. infant due to less than optimal nutrition. Not the best for the infant,but would simplify delivery.

Asherman chest seal: added

bloodstopper product (Celox, etc)
: mixed reviews with limited medical resources for after care.








_________________________
"Sometimes, it's better to be lucky than skillfull"


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#194120 - 01/22/10 02:50 AM Re: Long term medical supplies - your thoughts [Re: Mark_F]
marduk Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/04
Posts: 160
Loc: Mid-Missouri
herbal remedies and other home remedies. I believe there are also several books on home remedies that would warrant inclusion in a survival library.: research underway for appropriate tomes. Suggestions welcom.
_________________________
"Sometimes, it's better to be lucky than skillfull"


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#194121 - 01/22/10 03:00 AM Re: Long term medical supplies - your thoughts [Re: Blast]
marduk Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/04
Posts: 160
Loc: Mid-Missouri
I am loosely involved with local disaster planning. I am located in central MO. The expectation in case of the New Madrid fault slipping is that there will be minimal damage locally. HOWEVER we will likely have a large influx of "refugees". There is also concern regarding resupply - much of our supply comes from the east - having to cross Missouri & Mississippi River bridges that will be closed for an indefinite period of time, if not from damage, from closure until inspected. Major power sources include Bagnall Dam, Callaway Co. Nuclear plant, and Labadie Plant (coal fired plant - supplies REA system) - all at risk in a major earthquake of potential severity predicted.

Remember, there's no such thing as too much gauze.: Agree, see above. smile


Edited by marduk (01/22/10 03:01 AM)
_________________________
"Sometimes, it's better to be lucky than skillfull"


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#194123 - 01/22/10 03:52 AM Re: Long term medical supplies - your thoughts [Re: ironraven]
marduk Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/04
Posts: 160
Loc: Mid-Missouri
If trained people are available, they need supplies (I remember a similar discussion re: a BOB that resembled a field hospital - have to have supplies for trained people to use).

Though I can't cite the source off the top of my head, there is data to support the use of MOST drugs well beyond the expiration date safely (from military research I think). Most drugs just lose potency with age - tetracycline being a notable exception (toxic side effects from "old" tetracycline).

Rehydration salts: see above post

good anti-fungal, both for atheletes foot and jock itch,anti-allergy meds: on list

Cough suppresents: codeine on list, probably need to add non-narcotic

Toenail clippers. Lice shampoo. Razors and hairbrushes and combs: added
_________________________
"Sometimes, it's better to be lucky than skillfull"


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#194126 - 01/22/10 04:02 AM Re: Long term medical supplies - your thoughts [Re: AndrewC]
marduk Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/04
Posts: 160
Loc: Mid-Missouri
Yes, I agree.
At this time this is a mental exercise and we had to start somewhere.

Advanced training is being discussed. Depending on the specific circumstances we actually have a significant number of medical professionals that would be involved.

herbal remedies: agree. Reference recommendations appreciated.
_________________________
"Sometimes, it's better to be lucky than skillfull"


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#194200 - 01/23/10 05:27 PM Re: Long term medical supplies - your thoughts [Re: marduk]
ratbert42 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/31/06
Posts: 178
Loc: Florida
Just wanted to point out that Hesperian has "Where There is no Doctor" and other similar books available for free download from their website: http://www.hesperian.org

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